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House of Lords: Financial Support for Members

My Lords, I am very glad to follow the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe. I will take one of his points a little further. I am also very glad to follow my noble friend Lord Nickson, but if he goes back a long way as a chairman of the SSRB I go back much further as a member of the Review Body on Top Salaries. That is the only reason why I venture to say anything today, and my contribution will be very short. I became a member of the Review Body on Top Salaries 33 years ago under the chairmanship of Lord Boyle of Handsworth. Our first report was made a very long time ago, in 1971, and was on the salaries of Ministers and Members of Parliament. In 1976, we made a report on allowances for Members of your Lordships’ House: the first such report since the report of the Lawrence committee. The general shape—that seems to be the best word—of our report back in 1976 is very similar to the general shape of the report today, but the figures might just bear repeating. We recommended an overnight subsistence allowance of £11 a night and a day subsistence allowance of £6.50. How things have changed in 33 years. That report differs in one respect from the report now before us. We considered then whether Members of the House of Lords should be remunerated directly for the job that they did, and came down against that view for two reasons. The first was constitutional, and I will try to explain it by quoting two or three sentences from our report: ""In this respect, we find ourselves in agreement with the view of the Lawrence Committee that a recommendation from an outside body in favour of the introduction of direct remuneration ‘might well amount to a recommendation on the reform of the House of Lords itself’. Clearly, such an implied recommendation would be well outside our terms of reference"." That is the first reason, which it may be said has now been rather overtaken by events. Our second reason was very practical. How would the recommended daily fee in lieu of expenses work in relation to taxation? That practical problem remains. After the necessary legislation has been put in place, I think that almost everyone would accept that that fee will have to be taxable. But what about travel? Under present law, as I am sure your Lordships know, a taxpayer is not entitled to deduct the expenses of getting from home to work against his liability for tax. How will that work under the daily fee system? Is it intended that the general law should continue to apply in relation to travel expenses when the daily fee is being paid or will there be a special exception for Peers getting from their home, wherever it may be, to the House of Lords? That is an important point. I do not expect the noble Baroness when she comes to reply to be able to answer it unless the answer is in the report. I have not been able to find it. Clearly, it is a matter which will have to be considered at some stage. As to the figures, I say nothing. We have listened to very powerful speeches from the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, and my noble friend Lord Palmer. I would feel happier if the figures of £200 and £140 were not part of the architecture and principles which we are being asked to support today. If the ad hoc committee could have another look at those figures, I would find it much easier to support the Motion.