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House of Lords: Financial Support for Members

My Lords, I intended to say only a few words as I am a member of the House Committee. In view of the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, I shall say even fewer than I had intended. I and everyone else must, at the end of the debate, recognise that there are all kinds of objections to the detail of this report, both in principle and in substance. I am sure that the suggestion that the House Committee should set up an ad hoc committee to look into those objections and to approach them in as flexible a way as possible is the best way for the House to proceed from here. I wish that ad hoc committee all the luck in the world. However, the House has to recognise that it will not be possible to reconcile everything that has been said in this debate—some are mutually contradictory—but, nevertheless, it will be possible for the committee to do some things and I hope it will do its best to do them. I wish to make two short points. First, it gives me a modest amount of satisfaction that this is the first official report that I can recall that has taken up one of the recommendations of the Royal Commission on the Reform of the House of Lords, which I had the honour to chair some years ago. We made it abundantly clear that, in our view, it was not right and proper to expect people to give up their time in this House without recompense for their services. I am dealing not with quantum here but with principle. Secondly, remarks have been made about parliamentary expenses being taxable. I had something to do with making them tax free many years ago and the House should know why we did it. The wealthy Members in the other place were, year in and year out, claiming a loss on their parliamentary expenses and demonstrated that they spent considerably more than their parliamentary expenses; as a result, they were able to claim back tax on their other income. Those who were less wealthy ran the risk of the inspector of taxes saying, "You only had egg and chips in the canteen and we think that you did not spend all your expenses". In my judgment, the Inland Revenue would run a mile if it were asked to tax the expenses here because that would represent a redistribution from the less well-off Members of the House to the better-off Members, who would be able to claim a loss because their substantial London residences did not cover the costs of the expenses. I wish the committee well in its work. It is the right way to proceed and I shall not say any more.