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Jobseeker’s Allowance (Mandatory Work Activity Scheme) Regulations 2011

My Lords, the House owes a debt to the noble Countess, Lady Mar, for raising these regulations this evening. As always, it also owes a debt to the Merits Committee and the Social Security Advisory Committee for their excellent work. The debate highlights very important points, many of which have already been made. The first thing that I will say relates to the initial observations about procedures made by the noble Lord, Lord Knight. I would support him in pursuing the clarity that we need to enable the House to demonstrate and exhibit displeasure to the department without necessarily seeking to completely torpedo and annul regulations. The Motion in front of us in the name of the noble Countess, Lady Mar, is well judged. It is not always a Minister's fault—indeed, I completely absolve my noble friend from some of the worst excesses of this order. However, we should have the ability to make it clear that if there is insufficient detail, and if we do not feel that it is safe to endorse proposals that are brought to the House by the department via Ministers, we should have a method of expressing that in a grown-up way, and we should be able also to test opinion in the Division Lobbies. I encourage the noble Lord to pursue that line of thought. Secondly, my noble friend must have bigger fish to fry. I have spies everywhere and they tell me that this is an £8 million scheme. That does not mean that it is not important—there are important principles here—but he has much more important things to worry about, such as universal credit and the work programme, which are both crucial. I also understand that we have managed to get such a keen price out of the contractors that we have been able to double the number of places for the mandatory work activity scheme and are now thinking about 19,000. That raises questions about the quality of the schemes that will be provided. I have a calculator, and I can divide 19,000 into £8 million and see that it works out at something like £430 per four-week placement. These figures need to be confirmed; otherwise, we will all be confused. The point I am making is that, if we have four-week schemes that are costing £430 to provide, one wonders about the disproportionate sanctions referred to by colleagues earlier in this debate of £1,800 or thereabouts, being equivalent to 26 weeks’ benefit at £67.50. There is a disproportionality about some of this, as well as the question of whether the quality can be delivered on a four-week scheme for £430. We need to keep this in context, but there are some really important questions that worry me about these regulations that are creating potential precedents. These deserve attention. First, if I understand it right, contributory JSA benefit claimants are covered by these regulations. Contributory benefit claimants are different from means-tested JSA benefit claimants. They have been paying national insurance contributions to enable them to be entitled to this benefit, at least in the first year, before they go into the work programme, as I understand this scheme as it is going to be rolled out. They are going to be tapped on the shoulder by some Jobcentre Plus personal adviser and be told that they are going to be subject to the mandatory work activity scheme. People who make contributions through the national insurance system should be in a different place from those on a means-tested JSA regime. I would like the Minister to comment on whether that is correct. I also worry greatly about the way we are potentially interfering with the well-established legal definition of ““actively seeking work””. The way I read this—and again, I would like to be corrected if I am wrong—being able to do just enough to satisfy JSA legal entitlement requirements is not going to be enough anymore under this scheme, because if you are only undertaking activity that is just enough to satisfy your personal adviser, you can still be mandated to be put on this mandatory work activity scheme. So I think we are stretching some of the well-established concepts. What people really clearly understand about ““actively seeking work”” has been built up over years in case law. We interfere with that at our peril, and I hope the department is thinking carefully about that. I also concur with the comments made about adviser discretion, which is unappealable, to nominate candidates for this scheme. Obviously, the decision about a sanction is appealable and that is understood, but the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, was right to draw attention to giving discretion to advisers, as other colleagues have done in terms of local flexibility to contractors. Part 6 of these regulations causes me some concern because I do not know that I have ever seen anything like this, but I may be wrong. Part 6 talks about ““contracting out certain functions in relation to the scheme””. If we are starting to contract out certain functions of the scheme—I understand that does not include sanctions—that is new territory as far as I am concerned. We have to be very careful about what Jobcentre Plus staff and personal advisers can do, as well as some of the providers of these schemes. Local flexibility for contractors raises questions about quality, and I agree with them. I think there are disproportionate levels of sanctions, and I agree with my noble friend Lady Thomas of Winchester about good cause suddenly being undefined. Good cause has always been defined ad longam in legislation before. I understand that the department is suddenly saying, ““Let’s look at it. Let’s be more flexible because we can deal with clients better””, but I remain to be convinced about that. That is one of the biggest omissions in terms of the department’s inability to persuade people that we have enough information to take sensible decisions about these regulations this evening. Benchmarking was mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Lister of Burtersett. The guidance should be public. Although it may be technical, I understand that it will be searchable under freedom of information, and if it is, I do not know why it has not been made public. It will be kept within the department unless people ask for it. Benchmarking and targets become interchangeable, and staff in Jobcentre Plus offices will start making sure that they achieve the targets. I do not think they have been worked out. I am not convinced that we have had enough discussion about when a benchmark is a target and when it is not. There are all sorts of problems in some of these things. Finally, coming from a rural area of south-east Scotland, I am really concerned about how transport costs and childcare costs are dealt with in rural areas. My honest opinion is that the £8 million would have been better spent on training schemes, but if we are going to do this, we are entitled to seek more detail. I think that as things stand, these schemes are of doubtful value. The sanctions are very severe, and I will need some persuasion by the Minister not to support the Motion moved by the noble Countess, Lady Mar, if she presses it to a Division this evening.