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Opposition day on Tuesday, 22 November 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Malcolm Rifkind. The answering member was Lord Hutton of Furness.

Welfare Reform and Incapacity Benefit

Welfare refom and incapacity benefit. Tenth opposition day debate (part 1). Motion negatived on division (309 to 232). Amendment agreed on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
439 c1389-436 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 439 c1418 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is appropriate for me to remind the House now that Mr. Speaker has imposed a 10-minute lim...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 439 c1391 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman probably knows that areas in my constituency—Bridgend and Rhond...
Show all contributions (149)
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1391 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might think that he is being logical, but he should remember that logic is the ar...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1390 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment. The Prime Minister likes to give the impression that he leads from the front but...
Ed Balls | 439 c1390 (Link to this contribution) In 1997, the Government introduced the new deal, which has reduced unemployment in my constituency b...
Ed Balls | 439 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Lord Austin of Dudley | 439 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1390-1 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the House will forgive me, but I intend to make my speech. I will accept interventions, ...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Gentleman, we know that most jobs offered under the new deal are not permanent. It has...
Speaker | 439 c1389 (Link to this contribution) We now come to the debate on welfare reform and incapacity benefit. I must tell the House that Mr. S...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I understand why hon. Gentlemen wish to deflect me, but they will not succeed. Let me share with the...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1394 (Link to this contribution) No; I am sorry. All we have to go on is what the Government said in February. In February it was ind...
Pat McFadden | 439 c1394 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1394 (Link to this contribution) No. Let me deal with this matter first. The hon. Gentleman will forgive me. All we have to go on as ...
Michael Connarty | 439 c1393 (Link to this contribution) As always, the right hon. and learned Gentleman is trying to teach us all something. He tried it the...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I think we are talking about different things—unless the Government have made an announcement of a c...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1393 (Link to this contribution) I will, although I would have been happier to give way to the Secretary of State if he wanted to cor...
Michael Connarty | 439 c1393 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1392-3 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that there is no case for reform. Of course there is, as there would be for any other ...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 439 c1392 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s generosity in giving way again on that point. He...
Anne Begg | 439 c1392 (Link to this contribution) I was interested to hear the right hon. and learned Gentleman say that he was proud to have introduc...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1391 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not give way until I have finished my point. The Prime Minister and his colleagues shou...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 439 c1391 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1391-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I wish to develop my argument and then I will take interventions. The starting point that we ha...
Ed Miliband | 439 c1391 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1399-400 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, To leave out from ““House”” to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof:"“...
Tom Clarke | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the right hon. and learned Gentleman appreciates that some of us have followed these ...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Well, I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman.
Stewart Hosie | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman seems to suggest that the voluntary sector and the organisation...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) I am conscious that this a short debate, so I will not allow further interventions. I am sorry.
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) I commented on that a few moments ago. I acknowledged that the pilot schemes were useful and that th...
Ed Miliband | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1396 (Link to this contribution) No. Forgive me, but I am interested in the Secretary of State at the moment. I notice that he has no...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1395-6 (Link to this contribution) I can understand the hon. Gentleman’s nervousness. On Monday 10 October, ““Channel 4 News”” reporte...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1395 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is nodding. And others have said that cutting benefit is not part of the Go...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1395 (Link to this contribution) No. What we do know is that the Prime Minister has been putting very severe pressure on the Departm...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1394-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall not give way for the moment. When asked why, the Prime Minister said, ““Well, you know, the...
Lynne Jones | 439 c1395 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) I am talking about incapacity benefit at the moment. I will be happy to deal with those matters on a...
Ed Balls | 439 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman really trying to tell the House that the IPPR, Scope and the...
Ed Miliband | 439 c1397 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Ed Miliband | 439 c1397 (Link to this contribution) What about the pathways project?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1396 (Link to this contribution) That would be very agreeable indeed. I think that I can make a fairly clear prediction that that wil...
Lynne Jones | 439 c1396-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. and learned Gentleman for finally giving way to me. While I would have grave ...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1397 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady welcomed the announcement made in February, she must share my disappointment that i...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 439 c1405 (Link to this contribution) : Will my right hon. Friend accept my invitation to visit the pathways to work project in my area in...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1405-6 (Link to this contribution) Yes, indeed. I look forward to accepting my hon. Friend’s invitation. I hope that he is aware that m...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1406 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State realise that the answer to the question I am about to ask is awaited as ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1404 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right not to believe everything that the right hon. and learned Member for Kensing...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1404 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman spoke for 35 minutes, but he was unable to provide a single pol...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1405 (Link to this contribution) I stand corrected, but in my book the abolition of the new deal is not a serious policy proposal; it...
Ed Balls | 439 c1405 (Link to this contribution) : To be fair to the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington and Chelsea (Sir Malcolm Rifkind), ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1405 (Link to this contribution) It is a nice experience to be patronised by the hon. Gentleman. I am sure he will have other opportu...
Philip Dunne | 439 c1405 (Link to this contribution) As the Secretary of State is fresh into his job, I appreciate that he may not have had the benefit o...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1404 (Link to this contribution) I shall certainly do so. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the fact that that is one of t...
Ed Miliband | 439 c1404 (Link to this contribution) : Will my right hon. Friend comment on whether pathways to work allows existing incapacity benefit c...
Liz Blackman | 439 c1404 (Link to this contribution) The pathways to work pilot in Derbyshire is doing particularly well at supporting physically disable...
David Winnick | 439 c1401 (Link to this contribution) Is it not a fact that almost from the moment that the Government came into existence eight years ago...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1400-1 (Link to this contribution) That is strangely perceptive of the hon. Gentleman. We are the Government, and we have won three suc...
Kali Mountford | 439 c1403 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for reminding the House why we should not take lessons from Op...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1402 (Link to this contribution) Well, we shall wait and see how many times the present Government are re-elected. The right hon. and...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1402 (Link to this contribution) At the beginning of his remarks, the right hon. Gentleman seemed to be justifying the Government’s f...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1401-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend and, if he will allow me, I would like to develop that theme in a mi...
Lord McCabe | 439 c1421 (Link to this contribution) No; I am about to finish—[Hon. Members: ““Hooray.””] As Members are enjoying my speech so much, I wi...
Kali Mountford | 439 c1421 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Ruffley | 439 c1421 (Link to this contribution) Just over 7.8 million of our fellow citizens are outside the labour market when they could be in it,...
Anne Begg | 439 c1422 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Ruffley | 439 c1421-2 (Link to this contribution) Time is fearfully short, so I hope that the hon. Lady will forgive me for not giving way. There was...
Lord McCabe | 439 c1420 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely. That is the difference between caring about people and trying to help them get i...
Pat McFadden | 439 c1420 (Link to this contribution) : Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the benefits of the pathways-to-work programme is that the p...
Lord McCabe | 439 c1420-1 (Link to this contribution) No; I should move on for the sake of others who wish to speak. I want to mention the 16-hour rule. ...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 439 c1427-8 (Link to this contribution) No; I will not give way again. I have answered the hon. Gentleman’s point. What we had in February ...
Ed Miliband | 439 c1427 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Heathcoat-Amory | 439 c1427 (Link to this contribution) No. The hon. Gentleman is making a mistake. My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kensingt...
Ed Miliband | 439 c1427 (Link to this contribution) May I take the right hon. Gentleman to a point of substance in the debate: the nature of the pathway...
Mary Creagh | 439 c1428 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Heathcoat-Amory | 439 c1426-7 (Link to this contribution) We called this debate in our own time with the aim of giving the Government an opportunity of clarif...
Natascha Engel | 439 c1423 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for calling me in this very important debate. I did not think I was g...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 439 c1430 (Link to this contribution) Not now; I have only a few minutes left. I welcome the opportunity that the official Opposition hav...
Philip Dunne | 439 c1430 (Link to this contribution) : Will the right hon. Lady give way?
John Bercow | 439 c1430 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister take an intervention in the interests of correction?
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 439 c1429 (Link to this contribution) I am always delighted to put the record straight, so I am pleased that the right hon. and learned Ge...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1429 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Lady is upset by the attack on her record, will she explain what she meant when sh...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 439 c1430 (Link to this contribution) We certainly would not endorse any policy that cherry-picked people off incapacity benefit. However,...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 439 c1429 (Link to this contribution) I urge right hon. and hon. Members to reject the Opposition motion and support the amendment. We ha...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 439 c1428-9 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Lady will forgive me; I must reply to some of the points made. The hon. Member...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 439 c1430-2 (Link to this contribution) I am in some difficulty because I have not actually seen the quotation. However, I have dealt with t...
John Bercow | 439 c1430 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to listen to the Minister—I say that in all seriousness—but we are entitled ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1406 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to talk about correspondence between the Prime Minister and me, just as—let us be cle...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1407 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1407 (Link to this contribution) No, I am going to make this point, because the right hon. and learned Gentleman has asked me about i...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1407 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State therefore state unequivocally that the Green Paper—I appreciate that we ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1407 (Link to this contribution) I have made it clear that the programme is not a cuts programme. It is not about cutting benefits.
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1407-8 (Link to this contribution) I am explicitly answering the right hon. and learned Gentleman. The territory that the Green Paper w...
David Laws | 439 c1408 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State confirm that there will be a statement on the reform or abolition of the...
Stewart Hosie | 439 c1408 (Link to this contribution) : The Secretary of State has been generous in giving way. On rights and responsibilities, the pathwa...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1408 (Link to this contribution) We will make a statement about our reforms for the Child Support Agency. My right hon. Friend the Me...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1408 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that anyone could fairly or accurately describe the pathways to work projects as cost...
Kali Mountford | 439 c1409 (Link to this contribution) : My right hon. Friend mentioned dependency. I am particularly concerned about people who are in the...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1409 (Link to this contribution) Of course we shall do that. There are a couple of important issues that need to be tackled head on i...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1408-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that that was not his question, but he certainly implied that the pathways t...
Tom Clarke | 439 c1410 (Link to this contribution) : My right hon. Friend is being very generous in giving way so often. Many of us feel that he should...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we will wish to make certain that it is the case. I am grateful to my right hon. Frie...
Michael Connarty | 439 c1409 (Link to this contribution) : One cost-cutting exercise that has been admitted to by the Department under my right hon. Friend’s...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1409-10 (Link to this contribution) I shall have to look into the particular circumstances that my hon. Friend has drawn to my attention...
David Laws | 439 c1410-3 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington and Chelsea (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) on...
David TC Davies | 439 c1413 (Link to this contribution) I must say that I agree with every word that the hon. Gentleman has said. Does he share my concern a...
Jeremy Hunt | 439 c1415 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one big problem with the CSA is its complex relationship with the...
David Laws | 439 c1415 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. In fairness to the CSA, the hard core of cases that it is trying to dea...
Anne Begg | 439 c1415 (Link to this contribution) I am somewhat confused about Liberal Democrat policy in respect of the CSA. The party used to favour...
David Laws | 439 c1415-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady should pay more attention to Liberal Democrat policy statements. Perhaps she would lik...
Lord McCabe | 439 c1413 (Link to this contribution) Given the hon. Gentleman’s dissatisfaction with tax credits, will he be advising those of his collea...
David Laws | 439 c1413-4 (Link to this contribution) Given that hundreds of thousands of people are being driven into real poverty by the failure of, and...
Peter Bone | 439 c1414 (Link to this contribution) As a new Member of Parliament, I have been shocked to discover the distress that the CSA has caused ...
David Laws | 439 c1414-5 (Link to this contribution) I see the same desperation among constituents that the hon. Gentleman sees. I am particularly concer...
David Laws | 439 c1416 (Link to this contribution) No. I am going to press on and deal with a couple of other issues, as time is short. I hope that ref...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1416-7 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, and I know that other hon. Members want to speak, but I ...
Anne Begg | 439 c1416 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Lord McCabe | 439 c1419-20 (Link to this contribution) Well, I am not surprised that the hon. Lady does not like to be reminded of the track record with wh...
Lord McCabe | 439 c1418-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in this short debate. I found the contribution from t...
Nadine Dorries | 439 c1419 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is going back down memory lane, but I have an example of my own. In my constituen...
David Laws | 439 c1417-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree precisely on that point. One of the challenges for the Government, and for all political par...
David Laws | 439 c1417 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State will know that the view among Liberal Democrat Front-Bench Members has been p...
Adam Afriyie | 439 c1417 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that the complexity of applying for tax credits and benefit...
Huw Irranca-Davies | 439 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1397-8 (Link to this contribution) I was going to comment on the pathways project. The pilot schemes under that project are useful. The...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 439 c1403-4 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is precisely what we want to do. I shall shortly come to the Green Paper. I am grateful to...
Mary Creagh | 439 c1429-30 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that Conservative proposals to use the private and charitable sector...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1392 (Link to this contribution) Only the hon. Gentleman, or perhaps some of his colleagues, could claim that an increase of 120,000 ...
Ed Miliband | 439 c1392 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Lynne Jones | 439 c1396 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Natascha Engel | 439 c1423-6 (Link to this contribution) I was a bit surprised. I also thank the Opposition for tabling this motion on welfare reform, and o...
David Ruffley | 439 c1422-3 (Link to this contribution) No. I am sure that the hon. Lady will understand that other colleagues want to speak. This autumn, ...
David Laws | 439 c1413 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I recognise precisely the issue that the hon. Gentleman raises. In recent months, a...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1392 (Link to this contribution) No. The hon. Gentleman does not want to be reminded of the facts, but he will be reminded that far f...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1398-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with that. I pay tribute to the work of the right hon. Gentleman in those campaigns and the ...
Malcolm Rifkind | 439 c1397 (Link to this contribution) No. This is a short debate; I have given way a lot; and many hon. Members on both sides of the House...
John Bercow | 439 c1396 (Link to this contribution) The confusion is even greater than my right hon. and learned Friend has already eloquently described...
Subjects
Benefits rules Eligibility Incapacity benefit Social security Social security benefits Reform Pathways to work programme
Link
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