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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 30 November 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Shaun Woodward. The answering member was Laurence Robertson.

Terrorism (Northern Ireland) Bill 2005-06.

Terrorism (Northern Ireland) Bill. Report stage. New Clause debated and negatived. Amendments debated and negatived. Third Reading debate. Agreed to on question and Bill passed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
440 c289-354 
Session
2005-06
Department
Northern Ireland Office
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c290 (Link to this contribution) May I develop the theme of costs? Lord Carlile was talking about 10 judges in 2003 and although only...
Speaker | 440 c290 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have not finished with the hon. Lady. She must understand that there is a distinction betwe...
Show all contributions (141)
Lembit Opik | 440 c290 (Link to this contribution) I was just about to come to that point, because it arose in Committee. My hon. Friend the Member for...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c296 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely stand by what I said to the hon. Gentleman in Committee. We are asking him to refrain f...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c302-3 (Link to this contribution) : I will endeavour to address the questions that were raised by the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire ...
Robert N Wareing | 440 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am one person who missed that vote. The reason was the ir...
Speaker | 440 c300 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman was inconvenienced by what happened. I can only offer the immedia...
Speaker | 440 c300 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 2, in page 2, line 3 [Clause 1], leave out ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c304-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his timely intervention. That is the very point that the House has to fac...
Sammy Wilson | 440 c305 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that these acts of street violence and genocide along the interfaces are ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c303-4 (Link to this contribution) : I thank hon. Members for their understanding when I intervened on the Secretary of State for North...
Sammy Wilson | 440 c307 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that while those organisations are in being and carry out widespread inti...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c305-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for your direction, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am happy to abide by that instruction. We do no...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) In supporting the amendment tabled in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c305 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend, with whom I wholeheartedly agree. It seems that those who speak for the Gove...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c290-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will recall that during Second Reading of the Northern Ireland (Offences) Bill, t...
Lembit Opik | 440 c290 (Link to this contribution) Nevertheless, the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) is valid. We ar...
Lembit Opik | 440 c291 (Link to this contribution) I thank hon. Friends for their contributions, because as they make them we are covering all the poin...
Laurence Robertson | 440 c291 (Link to this contribution) We discussed this matter in Committee. The official Opposition have some sympathy with the point mad...
Laurence Robertson | 440 c291 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. A further problem could arise: if one judge was a Protestant and the second a Catholic, how...
Lembit Opik | 440 c291 (Link to this contribution) Although the Alliance party may require an act of faith, it is not actually a religion.
Laurence Robertson | 440 c291-2 (Link to this contribution) I cannot possibly respond. There could be an argument for considering the background of the judges,...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c292-3 (Link to this contribution) Because, with the respect to the hon. Lady, those matters must be more carefully thought through and...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c294 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Minister’s commitment to pre-legislative scrutiny. Why is he prepared to adopt that ap...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c295 (Link to this contribution) As I have said, the Government fully respect Lord Carlile’s advice. The hon. Gentleman regularly tur...
Lembit Opik | 440 c294-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank hon. Members for their contributions to the debate. May I start by emphasising the importanc...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c308-9 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with many of the points that Democratic Unionist party colleagues ha...
Lembit Opik | 440 c295-6 (Link to this contribution) No doubt, Lord Carlile will learn how many times he has been cited in our debate and will have his o...
Lembit Opik | 440 c296 (Link to this contribution) I could be wrong, but I see the look of fear in the Minister’s eyes. He is afraid that he might lose...
Gregory Campbell | 440 c300-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall not stray from the subject matter, but I wish to emphasise the concern and alarm that is fel...
Lembit Opik | 440 c301-2 (Link to this contribution) I listened with interest to the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr. Campbell) and I agree with the...
Gregory Campbell | 440 c300 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 1, in page 1, line 13 [Clause 1], leave out ‘2008’ and insert ‘2012’.
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c304 (Link to this contribution) : My hon. Friend is right to raise the question of individual action and action by paramilitary orga...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c307-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point. All the evidence suggests that, leaving aside dissident republic...
Speaker | 440 c305 (Link to this contribution) I must remind the hon. Gentleman that he is speaking to a very specific amendment. Although it is of...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c292 (Link to this contribution) New clause 1 would amend the Terrorism Act 2000 to provide that Diplock courts would in future consi...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c292 (Link to this contribution) In Committee, the Minister may recall saying that when considering the necessity for a successor to ...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c293 (Link to this contribution) Leaving aside the merits of three-judge courts for one minute, can the Minister help us on the quest...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c293-4 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I will write to him specifically on that point. Given the analy...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c294 (Link to this contribution) I fear that I would be craving your indulgence, Mr. Deputy Speaker, if I started to discuss on-the-r...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c294 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that he wants to consider costs and implications. What is the time scale in which ...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c294 (Link to this contribution) I might be able to answer the hon. Gentleman’s question pretty much immediately. Although detailed p...
Lembit Opik | 440 c295 (Link to this contribution) That is why this is a matter not of principle, but of judgment. The judgment of the Liberal Democrat...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c295 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, the Government have enormous respect for the work of Lord Carlile. However, when the hon....
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c320 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his comments, but I intend to press the amendment to a Division be...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c318 (Link to this contribution) These amendments would repeal section 108 of the Terrorism Act 2000. This issue was raised and discu...
Speaker | 440 c317 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 4, in page 5, line 13 [Schedule], at end in...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c319 (Link to this contribution) Is not the Minister guilty of adopting a somewhat contradictory approach? In the previous debate, he...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c318 (Link to this contribution) These amendments seek permanently to repeal section 108 of the Terrorism Act 2000. I entirely unders...
Laurence Robertson | 440 c314 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern, as I alluded to the 2007–08 deadline, that because of the ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c317 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 3, in page 2, line 28, at end insert—
Gregory Campbell | 440 c314 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that timely intervention, and that is exactly the case. In a previous...
Alasdair McDonnell | 440 c310 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was merely responding to comments made earlier ac...
Speaker | 440 c309-10 (Link to this contribution) Order. Perhaps I should point out to the hon. Member for Belfast, South (Dr. McDonnell) that, if he ...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c310-1 (Link to this contribution) This has been a good debate, and it has ranged widely across the Government’s proposals. Observation...
Gregory Campbell | 440 c309 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has outlined the progress that he sees Northern Ireland as making, and he has don...
Alasdair McDonnell | 440 c309 (Link to this contribution) I want to put on record some of comments that I made in Committee. My party believes that the legisl...
Sammy Wilson | 440 c309 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is nothing in the Bill that proposes the removal of watcht...
Alasdair McDonnell | 440 c309 (Link to this contribution) I refer the hon. Gentleman to my earlier comments about the military observation posts and the parap...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c313-4 (Link to this contribution) We do give the assurance to people in Northern Ireland that we will safeguard the security situation...
Gregory Campbell | 440 c313 (Link to this contribution) I hoped that the Minister would indicate in what way the implementation of the amendments standing i...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c313 (Link to this contribution) Without wishing to be drawn back to the discussion on Diplock courts, which we had in the previous d...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c311-2 (Link to this contribution) I share the Minister’s optimism but I am a realist. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of the ...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c311 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to that in a moment. The amendments would undermine the valuable process of scrutiny a...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c312-3 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that there are measures to deal with the situation. How do we deal with a situatio...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c312 (Link to this contribution) Organised crime is a serious threat, and we do not need a report to tell us that. I think that every...
Laurence Robertson | 440 c312 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is attempting to explain the reason for the 2008 deadline. I shall quote from the last ...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c312 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that the hon. Gentleman is a realist. Indeed, everyone who has participated in the debat...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c320 (Link to this contribution) I was just about to come to that subject. The Minister is keen on bringing Lord Carlile into the deb...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c320 (Link to this contribution) I accept Lord Carlile’s observations and I agree that section 108 lies uncomfortably with normalisat...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c320 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has referred several times to the people of Omagh and the incidents in 1998—the princip...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c320-1 (Link to this contribution) I have just explained to the hon. Lady that we have been advised by the police that the provision co...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c320 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept that in the unlikely event that the amendment were to be accepted, she cou...
Lembit Opik | 440 c326 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s reassurance, but I and other hon. Members are on to our fifth Secre...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c324-6 (Link to this contribution) Let us not be pejorative or trivialise the historic statement made on 28 July. Let us remember that ...
Laurence Robertson | 440 c327-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right that the situation involves violence of all kinds and criminality on all sid...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c327 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way in his excellent summing up of the Bill’s progress. T...
Laurence Robertson | 440 c326-7 (Link to this contribution) I begin by returning my thanks to the Minister for the way in which he has dealt with the Bill. I ra...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c326 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely; there is no question about that. It is important to consider the context. The Secretary ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c321 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who took the words right out of my mouth. His comments summed up wh...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c324 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. The purpose of the Bill is simple. It will...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 440 c321 (Link to this contribution) I have already told the Minister that we are defending a principle.
Lembit Opik | 440 c321 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government are trying to pass responsibility for judgments about ...
Peter Robinson | 440 c324 (Link to this contribution) It might be possible for the Minister to argue, although I would not accept his case, that there hav...
Lembit Opik | 440 c331-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. I believe that all Opposition Members publicly—and perhaps...
Speaker | 440 c333 (Link to this contribution) Order. Would the hon. Gentleman now confine his remarks to the Bill? I can see some relation, and I ...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) My party supports the principle as set out in the Bill. We did not divide the House on Second Readin...
Speaker | 440 c334 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman that on Third Reading we can discuss only what is in the Bill, no...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c333-4 (Link to this contribution) I accept your direction, Madam Deputy Speaker. My point is that the need for this legislation relate...
Lembit Opik | 440 c335 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there will unquestionably be unintended consequences from the leg...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c334-5 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let me simply make the general point that it would have strengthene...
Speaker | 440 c328 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will now relate his comments to the Third Reading of the Bill....
Laurence Robertson | 440 c328 (Link to this contribution) I thought that I was doing so, but I accept your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. I agree with the G...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c337 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for those slight strictures, but I do feel passionate about ...
Speaker | 440 c337 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman has been here for a while, so he will have heard the previous ruling by Ma...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c336-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. When I was involved in the Northern Ireland Affairs C...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c335-6 (Link to this contribution) : It is always a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Donaldson), who speaks wi...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c335 (Link to this contribution) I assure the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire that, despite all his efforts to lead me astray on this...
Lembit Opik | 440 c335 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I take full responsibility for leading the hon. Member fo...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c335 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was merely responding to an intervention, but I accept your guida...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 440 c335 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and I have to say that, on the same day as the First Reading...
Speaker | 440 c335 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman that we are debating a particular Bill.
Lembit Opik | 440 c338 (Link to this contribution) If that is logical, why does the hon. Gentleman not believe that the single judge in a trial would b...
Gregory Campbell | 440 c343-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Yes, when the Government indicate that pre-legisla...
Lembit Opik | 440 c343 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that even if there is pre-legislative scrutiny, there is no guarantee...
Speaker | 440 c347 (Link to this contribution) Order. I know that the hon. Gentleman is conscious that he is straying a little. I think that he sai...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c344-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr. Campbell), and I join...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c338 (Link to this contribution) In some ways, that is a fair point, but I do not want to get into a long debate about it as I see th...
Gregory Campbell | 440 c342-3 (Link to this contribution) I join in thanking the Minister for the way in which the debate has been conducted, even if at times...
Peter Robinson | 440 c340-2 (Link to this contribution) I intend to touch on only one key aspect of the Bill. First, however, I say that I hope that the Min...
Speaker | 440 c337 (Link to this contribution) Order. I understand the feelings and emotions involved in such debates, but I am afraid that there c...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c337-8 (Link to this contribution) I obviously accept that wrap across the knuckles, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and I shall now move on to the...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c347 (Link to this contribution) The point has been made and the Under-Secretary will note what I have said. In his response, I hope ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c349-50 (Link to this contribution) Terrorism is terrorism is terrorism. There can be no justification for seeing someone now as a good ...
David Simpson | 440 c350-1 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to many points raised today by my hon. Friends. I think that I can safely say that n...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c351-2 (Link to this contribution) By leave of the House, Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish to respond to a number of points during what I thin...
Lembit Opik | 440 c352 (Link to this contribution) Does that mean that any breach of legal behaviour or any indication of organised crime would constit...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c352 (Link to this contribution) Zero tolerance means zero tolerance, but as the hon. Gentleman would acknowledge, if we want to make...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c347-8 (Link to this contribution) I join my hon. Friends and other hon. Members in commending the Minister for the gracious manner in ...
Lembit Opik | 440 c348 (Link to this contribution) While I certainly took full responsibility for attempting to lead the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (...
Lembit Opik | 440 c352-3 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly confused. The Minister says that the Government intend to enforce zero tolerance of cr...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c353-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman is confused, but I disagree with him entirely. The Secretary of S...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c352 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a few moments. We do not believe that being optimistic, which is based on eviden...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 440 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) In the scenario that the hon. Gentleman envisions, with three judges sitting, would decisions have t...
Gregory Campbell | 440 c314 (Link to this contribution) The Minister answers one side of the argument, but not the other. What would be negative or nugatory...
Michael Fabricant | 440 c336 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that many of the people who wanted the Army observation post taken down, par...
Shaun Woodward | 440 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely not. Despite the sedentary intervention from the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire—and I th...
Laurence Robertson | 440 c310 (Link to this contribution) We discussed this matter in Committee; it was probably the longest discussion that we had. Indeed, I...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c331 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government said that there was a huge urgency about the on-th...
Sammy Wilson | 440 c338-40 (Link to this contribution) : I wish to continue where my hon. Friend the Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Donaldson) left off. In l...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c349 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend speaks with a huge amount of understanding on these issues. Does he agree with me tha...
Lembit Opik | 440 c289 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. I congratulate the Government on their sensib...
Lembit Opik | 440 c328-31 (Link to this contribution) First, I want to thank right hon. and hon. Members for their continuing kindness and support, and th...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 440 c348-9 (Link to this contribution) The first stage of repentance is acknowledgement. It is a step in the right direction if someone at ...
Subjects
Administration of justice Army Costs Juries Evidence Intimidation Judges Northern Ireland Police Organised crime Powers Proscribed organisations Terrorism Security Trials Scheduled offences
Legislation
Terrorism (Northern Ireland) Bill 2005-06
Link
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