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Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Thursday, 20 April 2006, in the House of Commons.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. Committee stage second day. Clauses 19-22 agreed to. Schedule 2 agreed to. New clauses considered. Bill ( Clauses 1-7, 10-12, 19-22 and Schedule 2 and any clauses and schedules other than those related to Parts 2 or 4) reported without amendment.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
445 c257-330 
Session
2005-06
Department
Northern Ireland Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lady Hermon | 445 c257 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 30, page 13, line 41, leave out ‘and justice’. It is a delight to be ba...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c257 (Link to this contribution) The Northern Ireland Act 1998 provides for several models. The clause proposes two additional models...
Show all contributions (246)
Lady Hermon | 445 c257 (Link to this contribution) The Minister must clarify exactly what he means by that intervention. Does he mean that there is a r...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c257 (Link to this contribution) The 1998 Act already allows for separate Departments, if the Assembly chooses that option. The Bill ...
Peter Robinson | 445 c259 (Link to this contribution) Under the options that the Minister has provided, if the Assembly were to decide to devolve policing...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c259 (Link to this contribution) I would imagine that it would be as normal under d’Hondt, but I will check on that.
Lady Hermon | 445 c257-8 (Link to this contribution) The amendment aims to discover what is in the minds of those in the Northern Ireland Office, if that...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c258 (Link to this contribution) It might help the hon. Lady to know that we are entirely neutral on which form of devolution—should ...
Lady Hermon | 445 c258 (Link to this contribution) I am exceedingly grateful to the Minister for that helpful intervention. As that matter seems to be...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c258-9 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my earlier comments about the amendment satisfied the hon. Lady. The Government’s purpos...
Jim Devine | 445 c264 (Link to this contribution) The job description that the hon. Gentleman has just given for a First Minister is not one that I wo...
Peter Robinson | 445 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) I would be content to exchange not just the First Minister but our whole Assembly for the Scottish P...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c265 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to those who have spoken and hope that I can deal with their points. As I told the ho...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c266 (Link to this contribution) The Bill will devolve criminal justice and policing when the Assembly wishes on a cross-community vo...
Mark Durkan | 445 c266 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell us where in the Bill the power is being given away and what power? While we ha...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c265 (Link to this contribution) Additional models need to be applied to support the potential options for the Assembly to choose, in...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 445 c265 (Link to this contribution) What practical difference will the clause make, given the existence of powers in the 1998 Act and th...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) A number of potential options in the 1998 Act allow the appointment of Ministers, including the Firs...
Mark Durkan | 445 c265 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister address the possibility that the Bill will limit the choices? If the parties in th...
Lady Hermon | 445 c266-7 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 31, in clause 19, page 14, line 12, at end insert—
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c266 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that the Government have given previous commitments that devolution of poli...
Laurence Robertson | 445 c266 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all hon. Members who contributed. I recognise the objections that have been made, a...
Peter Robinson | 445 c268 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that the Assembly Members on the Policing Board should also be able to meet...
Lady Hermon | 445 c268 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that interesting and, of course provocative suggestion. He knows that...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c268 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept all the points that the hon. Lady made. Does she also accept that the conditions in t...
Lady Hermon | 445 c267-8 (Link to this contribution) It is essential that the amendment be included in clause 19. It may be helpful for hon. Members if I...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c267 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment No. 21, in schedule 2, page 26,...
Lady Hermon | 445 c268 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman. It is a matter of considerable regret that, when the Bill ...
Peter Robinson | 445 c269 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman indicated earlier that my colleagues were not involved in those negotiations, so ...
Mark Durkan | 445 c269 (Link to this contribution) The parties who were present in the negotiation, Sir Alan. I can advise the hon. Gentleman that the ...
Mark Durkan | 445 c269 (Link to this contribution) We decided clearly in the agreement that there could not be all sorts of tests of people’s views, qu...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 445 c269 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to what the hon. Gentleman is saying on this issue. Would he be content for a known r...
Mark Durkan | 445 c270 (Link to this contribution) I see no proposals from hon. Members to make the case. That is a matter of political choice.
Sammy Wilson | 445 c269-70 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman mentioned homophobia. He may recall that his party led the charge ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c270 (Link to this contribution) Order. We must conduct these proceedings with a proper sense of order. All this sedentary comment an...
Mark Durkan | 445 c270 (Link to this contribution) We are in no way exposed in relation to this point. I am explaining carefully and clearly how the de...
Mark Durkan | 445 c270-1 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Lady’s point. Many people are suspected of exactly the sort of crime that she is tal...
Lady Hermon | 445 c270 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned a charter of human rights and I know that, later this afternoon, we sha...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c259 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. In principle, devolution will be undertaken w...
Mark Durkan | 445 c259 (Link to this contribution) I think that the answer to the question put by the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) lies...
Lady Hermon | 445 c259 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for his response. I am greatly encouraged by his closing remarks,...
Stephen Pound | 445 c259-60 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. I was perturbed to see her name misspelled ...
Lady Hermon | 445 c260 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that useful intervention, and I am delighted that he ha...
Lady Hermon | 445 c260 (Link to this contribution) That is even more impressive. The point of my amendment was to ask the Minister to clarify the word...
Mark Durkan | 445 c260 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the hon. Lady’s comments on her proposed amendment, and to her concern about the ...
Lady Hermon | 445 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. That is precisely what I needed to find ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c261 (Link to this contribution) Clause 19 gives freedom to the Assembly in conjunction with the 1998 Act, which includes several pot...
Laurence Robertson | 445 c261 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 18, page 14, line 4, at end insert—
Lady Hermon | 445 c261 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for confirming that clause 19 gives freedom to the Assembly in co...
Mark Durkan | 445 c261-3 (Link to this contribution) I note that the amendments are probing. Obviously, were they included in the Bill, they would make t...
Peter Robinson | 445 c263 (Link to this contribution) I have been provoked by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) into responding, which I presume was...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c261 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 19, page 14, line 5, at end insert— '(aa) ...
Laurence Robertson | 445 c261 (Link to this contribution) These are also probing amendments The Bill as it stands allows for the Assembly to provide that the ...
Peter Robinson | 445 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to follow your advice, Sir Alan, because I think that we were moving beyond not just the ...
Mark Durkan | 445 c263 (Link to this contribution) I remind the hon. Gentleman that, first, his party withdrew from the negotiations leading to the agr...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c263 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think it might help the Committee if I suggest that we are moving well beyond the scope of ...
Stephen Pound | 445 c274 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment, but before I do I want to emphasise that I have chosen my words very ca...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c274 (Link to this contribution) (East Londonderry) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Stephen Pound | 445 c273-4 (Link to this contribution) I apologise: not only is the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) known to have one of the best ...
Stephen Pound | 445 c273 (Link to this contribution) Like most hon. Members, I am reluctant to be seen in opposition to the hon. Member for South Down—
Laurence Robertson | 445 c272-3 (Link to this contribution) We are discussing the devolution of policing and justice to the Northern Ireland Assembly, as and wh...
Mark Durkan | 445 c271-2 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Lady’s sentiments, but she has in no way answered the question about the position of...
Lady Hermon | 445 c271 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman closes his remarks, may I say quietly and calmly that I take serious excep...
Mark Durkan | 445 c271 (Link to this contribution) I was clear in the recollection that I shared with the Committee on the negotiation of the d’Hondt m...
Stephen Pound | 445 c276-7 (Link to this contribution) The description ““Oglaigh Na hEireann”” was in fact used for a different army on a number of occasio...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c274 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is trying to divert attention away from the essence of the amendment. This is not...
Laurence Robertson | 445 c275-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman needs to make a better attempt at answering the very reasonable question asked by...
Stephen Pound | 445 c275 (Link to this contribution) I carry many a heavy load on my journey through this vale of tears that we call life, but one thing ...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c276 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not concede that Sinn Fein have said repeatedly that they do not accept the ...
Stephen Pound | 445 c276 (Link to this contribution) Recognising the police’s legitimacy is one thing; having to swear a secondary or tertiary oath is en...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c275 (Link to this contribution) The issue has been raised of past miscreants who engaged in criminal activity perhaps becoming, for ...
Stephen Pound | 445 c274-5 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful—rather more often than I expected to be—for the hon. Gentleman’s interventions, b...
Lady Hermon | 445 c275 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman referred to a phrase used by the leader of Sinn Fein—the statement that the war i...
Stephen Pound | 445 c275 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Few statements are less equivocal than th...
Stephen Pound | 445 c277 (Link to this contribution) I do not mean this ungraciously, but the hon. Lady frequently throws a bucket of cold water on us be...
Iris Robinson | 445 c277 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman try to see our side of the argument by answering this question? Ten or 15 ye...
Stephen Pound | 445 c278 (Link to this contribution) In making his point so dramatically, the hon. Gentleman rather loses the precision of the point orig...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c278 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Does he really want the House to believe that the murdere...
Stephen Pound | 445 c277;445 c278 (Link to this contribution) Sir Michael, I understand the rules of good manners and the rules of debate and that this one finish...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the debate has certainly stirred the hearts of quite a number of Northern Ireland Mem...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c280 (Link to this contribution) I almost hesitate to rise after the passion and eloquence of the contributions that we have heard fr...
Stephen Pound | 445 c278 (Link to this contribution) I have a worrying suspicion that interventions could continue for some time, so I shall conclude on ...
Stephen Pound | 445 c281 (Link to this contribution) I read the details of the discovery in Lurgan with great interest. Does the hon. Gentleman not accep...
Mark Durkan | 445 c282 (Link to this contribution) I assure the hon. Gentleman that I was not trying to equate those two things in any way. However, I ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but people in Northern Ireland know fine well that ...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c283-5 (Link to this contribution) : We have gone over the issue a great deal, but I should like to take up a couple of points made by ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c282-3 (Link to this contribution) With the greatest respect, I would prefer it if we did not necessarily go down that road. I remember...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c285 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. I did not realise that my argument has such force...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c285 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) has given the hon. Gentleman the opportunity to move in...
Mark Durkan | 445 c285 (Link to this contribution) I assure the hon. Gentleman that the record of our submissions to the review of the workings of the ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c285-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank hon. Members for their powerful contributions to the debate. I particularly appreciate the c...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c296-7 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) mentioned, the Bill specifies that the 50:50:50 proced...
Mark Durkan | 445 c297 (Link to this contribution) I encourage the Minister in that flexibility. The only effect of the provisions as they stand would ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c297 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. I understand the Assembly’s desire to choose...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c297 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for those comments and in view of the fact that he has agreed to refle...
Lady Hermon | 445 c297-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 32, in page 15, line 25, at end add—
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c298 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way so early in her argument. I want to reassure her that ...
Lady Hermon | 445 c298 (Link to this contribution) That was as clear as mud. Perhaps when the Minister makes his contribution—
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c296 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 9, in schedule 2, page 25, line 34, leave out from ‘passed’ to end of li...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c296 (Link to this contribution) These are essentially probing amendments. Schedule 2 requires that a nomination to the ministerial d...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c296 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 10, in page 28, line 29, leave out from ‘pa...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c301 (Link to this contribution) I assure the hon. Lady that my right hon. Friends the Home Secretary and the Attorney-General are, a...
Lady Hermon | 445 c301 (Link to this contribution) I am genuinely grateful to the Minister for that intervention, which was much more helpful than his ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising the matter. I hope that my muddy explanation helped, at l...
Lady Hermon | 445 c300-1 (Link to this contribution) I accept the Minister’s first point that the Government do not intend to transfer any extradition po...
Peter Robinson | 445 c301 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c301-2 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 7—Repeal of temporary provisio...
Lady Hermon | 445 c298-9 (Link to this contribution) That is much clearer than the earlier little dose of mud that was delivered to the Committee. I appr...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c298 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the hon. Lady found my explanation as clear as mud. It was meant to be helpful to he...
Lady Hermon | 445 c298 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister wants to intervene to clarify what he has just said, it would be hugely enlightening...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c289 (Link to this contribution) I understand that point, but I stick to the principle that the cross on the ballot paper provides th...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c288 (Link to this contribution) I am not being flexible with Sinn Fein or the IRA. If the matters that we are discussing are devolve...
Laurence Robertson | 445 c288 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has centred on the first part of the hon. Lady’s amendment. I take it that he will come...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c288 (Link to this contribution) I want Sinn Fein to take part in the Policing Board and play a role in policing. I want to see that ...
Peter Robinson | 445 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) It is one thing for the Minister to say that the rules that apply in the House of Commons should app...
Peter Robinson | 445 c288 (Link to this contribution) Would you make such a person Home Secretary?
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c288 (Link to this contribution) I am making the point that a previous conviction does not bar an individual from holding office. A P...
Iris Robinson | 445 c288 (Link to this contribution) The Minister talks about recognising a mandate. When we were elected to the Northern Ireland Assembl...
Lady Hermon | 445 c287 (Link to this contribution) It is nice to see you in the Chair this afternoon, Sir Michael. I am grateful to the Minister for ta...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c295-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) for moving the amendment. I share her co...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c296 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for his comments and I have taken on board the points that he mad...
Lady Hermon | 445 c290-1 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will not be surprised to learn that I am not prepared to withdraw the amendments. I am ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c291-5 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 8, in clause 19, page 14, line 24, at end insert—"‘(8) The Secretary of ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c290 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that it is not about that, but that is the effect of his amendment. Any Mini...
Laurence Robertson | 445 c290 (Link to this contribution) I simply do not believe that the Minister has given an adequate explanation of why anyone would not ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c290 (Link to this contribution) I have tried to say to the hon. Gentleman that support for policing is important and fundamental. On...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her contribution. If we reach the stage whereby policing is devol...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c289 (Link to this contribution) The Minister seems to be giving the second part of the amendment some credibility. However, the situ...
Lord Bannside | 445 c309 (Link to this contribution) : We have listened to arguments from the other side, and we must be frank: the Roman Catholic popula...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c309 (Link to this contribution) Order. The right hon. Gentleman knows that interventions must be brief. He has made his point.
Gregory Campbell | 445 c308 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support the new clause. It is difficult to overestimate the degree of anger and outright a...
Mark Durkan | 445 c308 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just told the House that thousands of applicants have received letters saying...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c308 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that inaccurate information. The figures that he mentions are for one...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 445 c308-9 (Link to this contribution) We can trade statistics back and forth across the House, but we are dealing with human beings. I, li...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c309 (Link to this contribution) The sneers and laughs of the hon. Members for Belfast, South (Dr. McDonnell) and for Foyle (Mark Dur...
Mark Durkan | 445 c311 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady suggests that we are not concerned about under-representation of the Protestant commun...
Iris Robinson | 445 c311 (Link to this contribution) : I can take the hon. Gentleman’s passion for fairness, equality and non-discrimination, but I have ...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c309-10 (Link to this contribution) I concur fully with the remarks of my right hon. Friend. At the moment, in 2006, several hundred ad...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c310 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend did demand that a proper proportion of the Protestant population be represented in...
Lady Hermon | 445 c310-1 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman reflect on the impression created by the discriminatory 50:50 procedure...
Mark Durkan | 445 c311 (Link to this contribution) The fact is that everyone who is recruited to the Police Service of Northern Ireland is suitably qua...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c310 (Link to this contribution) I would imagine, consistency being the keynote, that members of the SDLP would rush to the ramparts ...
Mark Durkan | 445 c310 (Link to this contribution) A number of false claims and arguments about 50:50 recruitment have been presented on a number of oc...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c306 (Link to this contribution) There is a small element of that, but it is a price worth paying for getting a first-class service t...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c305 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the changes in the composition of the police that he is describi...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c305 (Link to this contribution) That was GAA rule 21, which was ignored in practice. The GAA did not and does not reflect the Cathol...
Peter Robinson | 445 c306 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman nevertheless accept that some serving police officers are less qualified tha...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c305 (Link to this contribution) Between 2001 and 2003, the percentage increased from just over 8 per cent. to about 20 per cent. Tha...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c304 (Link to this contribution) The subject of 50:50 recruitment is very emotive, but it must be put into a particular context. The ...
Lady Hermon | 445 c304-5 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman reflect on the impact of the rule imposed not by the Unionist parties or the...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c305 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I did not catch the kernel of the hon. Lady’s question.
Lady Hermon | 445 c305 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking for clarification. He has referred to ““a chill facto...
Iris Robinson | 445 c302-4 (Link to this contribution) New clause 6 relates to the recruitment policy of the Police Service of Northern Ireland and, especi...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c307-8 (Link to this contribution) We can use statistics whenever we like, but we want to achieve a balanced, supported police service ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c307 (Link to this contribution) Order. If hon. Members wish to make comments, perhaps they could do so by making interventions rathe...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c307 (Link to this contribution) It might happen, but not where I live in my community. The fact is that, whether hon. Members like i...
Iris Robinson | 445 c307 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman is a little guilty of rewriting history. Does he accept that, in the...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c307 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the hon. Lady is saying, but she must accept that I have never heard anyone in my ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c306 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman understand what he is saying? He says that there is discrimination against t...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) The point is that they are not being discriminated against because they are Protestants but because ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c306 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is correct in saying that the best persons are getting the posts because they ...
Eddie McGrady | 445 c306 (Link to this contribution) The 50:50 rule is there for the obvious reason that we must ensure that the Catholic population, whi...
Peter Robinson | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the Government had to get a derogation from human rights legisla...
Mark Durkan | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is arguing that there is discrimination. We have also been told that the policy b...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman attempts to defend the indefensible. His hon. Friend the Member for South Down (M...
Mark Durkan | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said in his earlier remarks that thousands of people were rejected as a result of...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman makes, but I do not think that it is a point of order...
Mark Durkan | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mrs. Heal. I began by saying that a number of false claims had been made. One of those fa...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) Order. There has been a reasonable exchange on that point. Can we now perhaps concentrate on the rec...
Mark Durkan | 445 c312-3 (Link to this contribution) The Government succeeded in getting that derogation and it is not the only derogation that there has...
Mark Durkan | 445 c314 (Link to this contribution) That is true: my father served in the RUC as a district inspector. He died before I was a year old, ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c315 (Link to this contribution) I greatly appreciate how sensitive and controversial this issue is. As with many parapets, I put my ...
Mark Durkan | 445 c315 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Lady’s point, in terms of my paying proper attention to my notes, but that should in...
Peter Robinson | 445 c314 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman’s father served proudly in the RUC, and made a great contribution to the communit...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c313 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman therefore disagree with his colleague the hon. Member for South Down (Mr. Mc...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c322-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend’s point reflects my experience. The officer I mentioned found that his own family did...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c323 (Link to this contribution) I have already explained why the percentage went down over the period of the troubles. It would have...
Mark Durkan | 445 c324 (Link to this contribution) That reinforces what I said earlier—that the DUP opposed the high turnover ratio that the Patten pla...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c324 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman’s party confirmed our worst fears about the Patten proposals, namely that their d...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c324-5 (Link to this contribution) No, we are approaching the end of the debate. The 50:50 recruitment rule is expensive. The hon. Mem...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c324 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman can make such fine distinctions, but constables could not be recruited without ap...
Stephen Pound | 445 c319 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady would have heard the wise and humane words of the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Bur...
Lady Hermon | 445 c319 (Link to this contribution) I am reluctant to say that it is absolutely correct that while negotiations on the Police (Northern ...
Mark Durkan | 445 c319 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has effectively confirmed that the courts in Northern Ireland decided that the 50:50 p...
Lady Hermon | 445 c318-9 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the correction, then. Hansard will, of course, shed light on all the versions by tomorr...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 445 c320 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Lady add to the list of obstacles confronting young Roman Catholics wishing to join ...
Lady Hermon | 445 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) Let me respond to the hon. Gentleman with two facts. The Home Secretary appeared as a witness earlie...
Mark Durkan | 445 c318 (Link to this contribution) That is not what the hon. Lady said I said.
Lady Hermon | 445 c318 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman. I am most grateful. That is on the record for the second time this after...
Mark Durkan | 445 c318 (Link to this contribution) What I actually said was that in the eyes of many nationalists Sir John Stevens’s observation that t...
Lady Hermon | 445 c318 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman wishes to correct me; I am most pleased.
Sammy Wilson | 445 c322 (Link to this contribution) No, it was not positive discrimination, because it was not a requirement that a certain number of re...
Jim Devine | 445 c322 (Link to this contribution) At that time, what percentage of RUC members came from the Catholic community?
Lady Hermon | 445 c320 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman, but I pay tribute to the Social Democratic and Labour party, which at le...
Lord Bannside | 445 c321 (Link to this contribution) This has been an important debate because it has raised issues that needed to be raised and discusse...
Lady Hermon | 445 c317-8 (Link to this contribution) It has been a long and, at times, rather fractious debate, but, at the outset, I want to say that I ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c317 (Link to this contribution) As for the time that it will take, regrettably, I have not brought my crystal ball into the Chamber ...
Mark Durkan | 445 c316 (Link to this contribution) There is no statistical complexity. I have figures showing that 541 people were rejected because of ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c316 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I feel as though I am in the crossfire; I ...
Peter Robinson | 445 c317 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady says that we must put up with the policy for a little longer. Will she tell us how lon...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c317 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention and to the other hon. Gentlemen for the va...
Lady Hermon | 445 c315 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady refers to the Patten report in support of her argument. Will she reflect on the fact t...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c316 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady referred a moment ago to the human rights of many people in Northern Ireland. Last Oct...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c315-6 (Link to this contribution) Human rights are important and Patten was correct to put them at the core of the report. We have to ...
Stephen Pound | 445 c323 (Link to this contribution) The overwhelming majority of Members would endorse what the hon. Gentleman says about the Police Ser...
Mark Durkan | 445 c323 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is referring to my comments about the choices facing the Patten commission, to wh...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c322 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was here for the speeches by SDLP Members, who said that so...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 445 c322 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend confirm that, before 1973, the percentage of Roman Catholics in the Royal Ulster...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c323-4 (Link to this contribution) That was a nonsensical idea. We are already reaping some of the consequences of getting rid of far t...
Mark Durkan | 445 c324 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman needs to realise the difference between 50:50 recruitment of fresh, new police of...
Jim Devine | 445 c324 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jim Devine | 445 c322 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said that places were set aside for the Catholic community. Was that not positive...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c322 (Link to this contribution) That was the start of the troubles, when the percentage of RUC members who were Roman Catholics was ...
Jim Devine | 445 c322 (Link to this contribution) As SDLP Members have said, it is a historical problem that needs to be sorted.
Lady Hermon | 445 c320-1 (Link to this contribution) I sigh with exasperation but, personally, I find any form of discrimination morally reprehensible. I...
Jim Devine | 445 c320 (Link to this contribution) : The Scottish Parliament introduced a 50:50 policy on women MSPs. It was much criticised and regard...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c321-2 (Link to this contribution) This has been a bizarre afternoon. On the previous set of amendments, SDLP Members defended the noti...
Shaun Woodward | 445 c326-7 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that, as the hon. Gentleman and other members of his party have left me very little time...
Peter Robinson | 445 c327 (Link to this contribution) I shall not attempt, in the 30 seconds that remain, to wind up such a wide-ranging debate. I shall s...
Shaun Woodward | 445 c325-6 (Link to this contribution) This has been an important debate that has raised several issues. While I hope to persuade hon. Memb...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c327 (Link to this contribution) Order. Will the Serjeant at Arms please investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby?
Mark Durkan | 445 c266 (Link to this contribution) Where in the Bill does it say that?
Sammy Wilson | 445 c260 (Link to this contribution) And he actually read the Hansard.
Peter Robinson | 445 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) May I respond to the remarks of the hon. Member for Ealing, North (Stephen Pound)? Earlier, he indic...
Lady Hermon | 445 c314 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He has made a slip of the tongue—at least, ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 445 c265 (Link to this contribution) I have a practical question. We would have no objection to the First and Deputy First Ministers acti...
Mark Durkan | 445 c268-9 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully to the hon. Lady’s presentation of the amendment. I am in no way persuaded to o...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 445 c271 (Link to this contribution) In my absence, I believe that the hon. Gentleman referred to my role in the negotiations leading up ...
Sammy Wilson | 445 c274 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mark Durkan | 445 c285 (Link to this contribution) I have never said that the SDLP has no time for vetting of any kind. In negotiating the agreement, i...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 445 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) Let me say again that, whatever the opinions of individual hon. Members—and we all have our disagree...
Mark Durkan | 445 c313-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend justified 50:50, as I do, knowing that it creates some painful instances. A young Pro...
Mark Durkan | 445 c269 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman asked what parties. The main person who negotiated for the Ulster Unionist party ...
Gregory Campbell | 445 c309 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that point. In all the history of Northern Ireland, in which many difficu...
Peter Robinson | 445 c312 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mrs. Heal. Is it in order for the hon. Gentleman to make up the name of a const...
Subjects
Criminal records Devolved matters Administration of justice Equality Extradition Disqualification Government departments Northern Ireland Police Recruitment Public appointments Northern Ireland Assembly Political parties Politics and government Ministers Police Service of Northern Ireland Religion First Minister (NIE)
Legislation
Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk