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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 18 April 2007, in the House of Lords.

Legal Services Bill [HL]

Legal Services Bill (HL). Lords report stage second day. Part 1 of 2 records.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
691 c223-80 
Session
2006-07
Department
Department for Constitutional Affairs
Legislative stage
Report stage
Procedure
Government defeats
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c261 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 162 to 164: 162: Clause 44, page 23, line 25, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c261 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 159 to 161: 159: Clause 44, page 23, line 15, leave out ““an? and insert ““a...
Show all contributions (129)
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c261-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 166 to 169: 166: Clause 45, page 23, line 38, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c261 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 165: 165: Schedule 9, page 163, line 24, leave out ““Secretary of State? and i...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c260 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 144 and 145: 144: Clause 38, page 19, line 35, leave out ““42 days? and inse...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c260 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 141 to 143: 141: Clause 37, page 18, line 27, leave out ““acts or omissions?...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 149 to 151: 149: Clause 41, page 21, line 34, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c260 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 146 to 148: 146: Clause 40, page 20, line 40, leave out ““an? and insert ““a...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c261 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 156 to 158: 156: Clause 44, page 22, line 30, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c261 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 152 to 155: 152: Schedule 8, page 154, line 10, leave out ““Secretary of Sta...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c268 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 175: 175: Clause 48 , page 26, line 32, leave out from second ““the? to ““in? ...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c266 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. We know from what she said in Committee that she supports t...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c266 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my interpretation of Clause 27 may differ from that of the noble Lord. It says, of the app...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c264 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not want to repeat what was said by others at the previous stage of this Bill, partic...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 174: 174: Clause 48 , page 26, line 29, at end insert— ““( ) Any statement of ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c262 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 170 to 173: 170: Clause 46, page 25, line 2, leave out ““Secretary of State ...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c265 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for interrupting the Minister. She referred to Clause 27, which is a good exam...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am always trying to address concerns raised by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay o...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 691 c264 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had understood that the noble Baroness clearly embraced the principle of light touch—or ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c264 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly agree with my noble friend Lord Kingsland who put this amendment and those link...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c272-4 (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 202: 202: Clause 70, leave out Clause 70 The noble Lord said: My Lords, Amendm...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c272 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 200 and 201: 200: Clause 68, page 39, line 3, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c271 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 183 to 186: 183: Clause 60, page 33, line 22, leave out from ““The? to ““con...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c271 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 181 and 182: 181: Clause 59, page 32, line 20, leave out ““Secretary of Stat...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c272 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 193 and 194: 193: Clause 65 , page 36, line 38, leave out ““Secretary of Sta...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c271-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 187 to 192: 187: Clause 61, page 33, line 37, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c269-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for raising this issue. He is right that we have had a det...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c269 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 176A: 176A: Clause 53 , page 30, line 6, at end insert— ““(2A) The Board may a...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c271 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 177 to 180: 177: Clause 58, page 32, line 12, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c270-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister’s reply. She is reposing great confidence in the general du...
Lord Whitty | 691 c274-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I recognise some of the anxieties that the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, points to. However, i...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c280 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that further consideration on Report be now adjourned. In moving the Motion,...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister has replied helpfully in her customarily persuasive and courteous way, but I ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken. In Committee, we had a very useful and impor...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 691 c276-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, reference has been made to an amendment that I tabled, with the subsequent backing of othe...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c275-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have a great deal of sympathy with what the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, said ab...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c248-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 119: 119: Clause 30, page 15, line 13, leave out ““one or more of? The noble ...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we on these Benches agree with the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, that Clause 30 imposes too ...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 691 c250 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I retain the concerns that I expressed earlier. This ought to be looked at. To have a sing...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c252 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to understand what the Minister was saying a little earlier. Is she saying t...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c252-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Viscount—for me, anyway—makes my point. ““Taken as a whole? means taken as a who...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c253 (Link to this contribution) With respect, my Lords, the Minister misunderstood the intent of the amendment, as I understand it, ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c250 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree. At paragraph 178 of the Joint Committee report on the draft Legal Services Bill w...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c250 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support this amendment, but I have to do so having moved Amendment No. 5, which is relat...
Lord Brennan | 691 c251 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this group of amendments deserves serious consideration by the Government. Here is a Bill ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c251-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my ambition is that the Legal Services Board will never have to use its powers. The diffic...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not sure that my twelfth intervention will make a huge amount of difference. For the ...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c246 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for setting out the position that she previously ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c248 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 115 and 116: 115: Clause 27, page 13, line 36, at end insert ““and? 116: C...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c248 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 118: 118: Clause 29, page 14, line 41, leave out ““Secretary of State? and ins...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 108 to 113: 108: Schedule 6, page 143, line 36, leave out ““Secretary of Sta...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c247 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 98 to 102: 98: Clause 24, page 12, line 12, leave out ““Secretary of State? ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 84 to 91: 84: Schedule 5, page 137, line 7, after ““Attorneys,? insert— ““( ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c247 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 92: 92: Clause 22, page 11, line 23, leave out ““Secretary of State? and inser...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that I am happy to say that I did not participate in the debate in Committee on th...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c256 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 124 and 125: 124: Schedule 7, page 150, line 27, leave out ““Secretary of St...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c256-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 126 to 128: 126: Clause 34, page 17, line 15, leave out ““an? and insert ““a...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c257 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 131: 131: Clause 36, page 18, line 4, leave out paragraph (a) and insert— ““(a...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c257-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we thank the Government for tabling amendments to restrict the power to fine to circumstan...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c258 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 132 to 134: 132: Clause 36, page 18, line 5, leave out ““an? and insert ““a ...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c258-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 135: 135: Clause 36, page 18, line 6, after ““objectives,? insert— ““( ) that ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c259 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the explanation that the noble Lord has given, but I am not persuaded th...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c260 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 139 and 140: 139: Clause 36, page 18, line 14, leave out ““Secretary of Stat...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c253 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount—
Lord Kingsland | 691 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Viscount has already deployed his immense gifts for oratory to very considerable...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c253 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we are on Report, and the Minister has now sat down.
Lord Kingsland | 691 c256 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 120: 120: Clause 30, page 15, line 13, after ““objectives? insert ““taken as a...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c256 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 121 to 123: 121: Clause 31, page 16, line 2, leave out ““an? and insert ““a ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c238 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49: 49: Clause 13 , page 6, line 21, at end insert— ““( ) Nothing in this sect...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c238 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 47: 47: Schedule 2 , page 119, line 6, leave out ““paragraph (a) or? and inser...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c241 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in so far as these amendments, so eloquently introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Evans of T...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c239-41 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 50: 50: Clause 15 , page 7, line 8, leave out ““body or other person (““B?)? a...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c242-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 63 to 70: 63: Schedule 3, page 121, line 19, leave out sub-paragraph (9) ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 51 to 62: 51: Clause 15, page 7, line 10, leave out ““B? and insert ““P? 5...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 83: 83: Schedule 4, page 132, line 40, leave out sub-paragraph (3) and insert—...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c243 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 71 to 82: 71: Schedule 4, page 126, line 28, at end insert— 72: Schedule 4...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c238 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in response to the noble Lord’s points, I beg leave to withdrawn the amendment. Amendment...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c234 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have only one quick question: what is the objection to this amendment? What goes on with...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c235 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as always, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for her response. However, she will ha...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c234-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, one of the disadvantages of the noble Lord interrupting is that I cannot complete my speec...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c237-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there has been full discussion on this matter at previous stages of the Bill and the quest...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c238 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Bledisloe, for his compelling and persuasive int...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c238 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the institute has been in regular e-mail correspondence with the department. The departmen...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, let me be clear. I accept full responsibility for my role in relation to this Bill. When t...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c236 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness, and by saying what she said about the noble and ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46: 46: Clause 12 , page 5, line 28, at end insert— ““( ) will-writing for fee...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c237 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I confess that I am amazed by the provision that seeks to exclude wills from the provision...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise simply in response to a matter raised by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, w...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c230-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 43: 43: After Clause 11, insert the following new Clause— ““Representations by...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c228 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am extremely grateful for this interesting debate. I agree with a large amount of what h...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c228 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for interrupting the noble Baroness, but I wonder whether she would reflect on...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c229 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I take the noble Lord’s point, but let me try again. The point that I am making is that th...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c229 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Just to clarify the point, is she saying tha...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c229 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the person is not a practising lawyer—they may be legally qualified but not practising—...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c229 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister sits down, I have a question about procedure. Does she know why any ob...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c229-30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the only concern on the government Benches is that we are on Report. We have had six full ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c230 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the most important point that the Minister has just made is that she has no criticism at a...
Lord Whitty | 691 c231-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I oppose the cumulative effect of the amendments but not because I do not think that the v...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c231 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister certainly has a case to answer. My noble friend has set out the background ve...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 691 c233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, another voice from a non-lawyer might not be inappropriate. I listened carefully to what t...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, and the noble Baroness, Lady C...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c232 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, returns to the question of intervention, on which there have ...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will make a very brief intervention about a question of confidence between the Legal Ser...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c233-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the noble Lord disagrees, he can divide the House; that is fine. It is up to him. I wan...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I may respectfully suggest to the Minister, she went further than that. She said in ter...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment was about mutatis mutandis. I think that I was very clear to noble Lords tha...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c224 (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 39: 39: Clause 7, leave out Clause 7 The noble Lord said: My Lords, I am repor...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c223-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on behalf of my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer of Thoroton, I beg to move that the...
Baroness Hayman | 691 c224 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it might assist the House if I report that I understand that, in relation to the amendment...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 691 c226 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend should really save his remarks for a speech rather than intervening on Rep...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 691 c226 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, all I am asking is that the noble Lord considers my point further. It may be possible to r...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c226 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for having given me notice of his question. I have pa...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 691 c226 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to clarify the phrase ““non-practising solicitor?. Does the solicitor concerned hol...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 691 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 40: 40: Clause 8, page 4, line 7, at end insert ““, and (c) qualified but non-...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c225 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Baroness. Of course I will withdraw the amendment, but...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c225 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Baroness the Lord Speaker for indicating the correction th...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c227 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name is on this amendment. I shall be very short. I declare an interest as a qualified ...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 691 c227 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we on these Benches broadly support the amendment that the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c247 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 103 to 107: 103: Clause 25, page 13, line 6, leave out ““Secretary of State?...
Lord Kingsland | 691 c259 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful for the noble Baroness’s response and I am aware that she has already g...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c259-60 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 136 and 137: 136: Clause 36, page 18, line 8, at end insert— ““( ) This sect...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c253 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand my noble friend Lord Brennan—he has given me some of his time to discuss this...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c253 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have a simple question. Does the Minister really understand what is being said, and said...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 691 c247 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 93 to 97: 93: Clause 23, page 11, line 31, leave out ““Secretary of State? a...
Viscount Bledisloe | 691 c253 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand the Minister—
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 691 c276 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in the questions to those who gave evidence to the Joint Committee, I raised a series of p...
Subjects
Complaints Consumers Costs Competition Competition Commission Legal profession Fines Exemptions Monitoring Standards Voluntary organisations Regulation Wills Legal Services Board Legal Services Consumer Panel
Legislation
Legal Services Bill (HL) 2006-07
Link
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