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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 24 October 2007, in the House of Commons, led by John Healey.

Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill.

Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill. Programme motion (No 3) on proceedings on consideration of Lords amendments and subsequent stages. Agreed to on question. Lords amendments considered. Lords amendments debated and agreed to. Commons amendment to Lords amendment debated and negatived on division. Remaining Lords amendments agreed to.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
465 c313-74 
Session
2006-07
Department
Department for Communities and Local Government
Legislative stage
Lords amendments
Procedure
Programme motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
John Healey | 465 c333 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Andrew George | 465 c332 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. On a point of principle, and not in respect of any par...
Show all contributions (151)
John Healey | 465 c332 (Link to this contribution) I have already explained the nature and purpose of the Secretary of State's consultation, and the wa...
Lord Deben | 465 c332 (Link to this contribution) When I used to do the job of the Secretary of State and answers were produced of the sort that the r...
John Healey | 465 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not think I can be clearer because I have said this twice already: we shall shortly publish a s...
John Healey | 465 c328-9 (Link to this contribution) The point that I was making is that my hon. Friend has a sufficient and special interest to be in th...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c328 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that we have special interests in this issue. As I have pointed out time and again...
John Healey | 465 c329 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the right hon. Gentleman, the single unitary proposal in Northumberland also had sup...
Lord Beith | 465 c329 (Link to this contribution) In the Secretary of State's letter to district councils, he acknowledged that"““whilst there is supp...
John Healey | 465 c329 (Link to this contribution) The matter to which the right hon. Gentleman refers was not a question of Suffolk, but of Ipswich. T...
Lord Deben | 465 c329 (Link to this contribution) As I apply those criteria to the decisions in Suffolk, it appears that the opposite decision was mad...
John Healey | 465 c330 (Link to this contribution) First, the right hon. Gentleman misquotes what I said about Northumberland. Secondly, we had more th...
Lord Deben | 465 c329 (Link to this contribution) But the Minister has just said that the public sector did not support the arrangements in Northumber...
Alistair Burt | 465 c330 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister leaves the matter of the criteria, I hope he will reflect on the fact that the p...
John Healey | 465 c330-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman's understanding of these matters is normally very precise and accurate, but I mus...
John Healey | 465 c331 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. However, when such a figure is established, I should be happy to contact my hon. Frien...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c331 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister have a figure for all the assets, reserves and capital receipts held by the distri...
John Healey | 465 c331 (Link to this contribution) I give way first to my hon. Friend.
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c331 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the decision to set up a single unitary authority was taken because the county is in ...
John Healey | 465 c331 (Link to this contribution) The information that we have not released is precisely as the right hon. Gentleman has just describe...
Lord Beith | 465 c331 (Link to this contribution) I want to be frank with the Minister. Under the Freedom of Information Act, he has released a copy o...
John Healey | 465 c332 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Member for St. Ives.
John Healey | 465 c332 (Link to this contribution) That may be my hon. Friend's view, but the Government's decision is based on an analysis of the evid...
Robert Syms | 465 c324-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. The chief constable's views might be at variance with th...
Lord Deben | 465 c325 (Link to this contribution) Is it not also necessary to be clearer about what is to be consulted on and how detailed that consul...
Philip Dunne | 465 c322 (Link to this contribution) With the advent of a new Prime Minister whose opening mantra when taking up office was that he would...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 465 c321 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that it is difficult for the Government to take into account the resu...
Robert Syms | 465 c324 (Link to this contribution) I want to raise similar concerns about amendments Nos. 2 to 5. The term ““consult”” is widely unders...
Andrew George | 465 c322-4 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intrude on matters in Northumberland and Shropshire by dragging the debate in a direct...
Robert Syms | 465 c325 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. He has had a lot of experience, having spent many hours on th...
Tom Levitt | 465 c325 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is talking a great deal of sense, because by saying that different weight has to ...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c325 (Link to this contribution) I might be going mad, but I am sure that things were clear in Northumberland because the assembly vo...
Lord Stunell | 465 c327 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman poses the question to the Association of Chief Police Office...
Lord Deben | 465 c327 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman like to reflect on the fact that there does not seem much point in most of ...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 465 c327 (Link to this contribution) I could not let the hon. Gentleman's comments about the City of Durham pass without comment and a qu...
Lord Stunell | 465 c326-7 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) and the hon. Member for Blyth Val...
Robert Syms | 465 c326 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether a Member of Parliament would appear in a list of appropriate consultees.
Lord Stunell | 465 c326 (Link to this contribution) This debate is a microcosm of discussions since the publication of the White Paper, let alone those ...
Robert Syms | 465 c325-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point. Hon. Members have had a long recess in order to talk to m...
Alistair Burt | 465 c327 (Link to this contribution) This is a passionate plea for greater attention to be paid by the Government to the views of the peo...
Lord Stunell | 465 c328 (Link to this contribution) I am obviously glad that I gave way to the hon. Gentleman. We have made it clear in both Houses that...
John Healey | 465 c328 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, I will try to respond to the debate, especially the points relating to ...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c324 (Link to this contribution) If a chief constable took such a decision, who would he consult—the police authority?
Robert Syms | 465 c325 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a good point. If we are to pursue change, the important thing is to have ...
Richard Taylor | 465 c373 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the changes that have been made, but still have two concerns. First, Lords amendments Nos....
Tom Levitt | 465 c371 (Link to this contribution) That was only one of the issues that I raised. More important is the fact that local authority invol...
David Leslie Taylor | 465 c371 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Eddisbury (Mr. O'Brien) referred to the scale and frequency of organisational ch...
Lord Stunell | 465 c372-3 (Link to this contribution) We welcome the 10 shuffling steps forward that the Minister has made on this issue. I also wish to r...
David Leslie Taylor | 465 c371-2 (Link to this contribution) There is more merit in that particular justification, but the first one that my hon. Friend chose to...
Stephen O'Brien | 465 c368-9 (Link to this contribution) The official Opposition welcome part 14 as so well amended in the other place. Lords amendments Nos....
John Healey | 465 c367-8 (Link to this contribution) We turn to the last group of amendments, which address part 14 of the Bill. They deal with patient a...
Stephen O'Brien | 465 c369-71 (Link to this contribution) I accept that, as one might expect, the performance of CHCs was patchy, but the vast majority perfor...
Tom Levitt | 465 c369 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to pay credit to those who have contributed so much through CHCs and the...
Tony Baldry | 465 c373-4 (Link to this contribution) Before the debate concludes, it should never be forgotten that what has happened— It being four hou...
Philip Dunne | 465 c321 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my hon. Friend mentions that, because constituents have asked me why the House of Lor...
Lord Deben | 465 c321 (Link to this contribution) Is it not also true that in all these cases there has been no clear explanation of why the Governmen...
Philip Dunne | 465 c321 (Link to this contribution) It was clear throughout the debate in Committee that the Government are keen to install a system of ...
Lord Beith | 465 c320 (Link to this contribution) One of the reasons why the hon. Gentleman has not seen the analysis is that when I made a freedom of...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c320 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, we have not seen it. That is a large part of my argument. It has been kept from us, and yet ...
Philip Dunne | 465 c320-1 (Link to this contribution) Following such impassioned pleas from Members of different parties representing Northumberland const...
Alistair Burt | 465 c321 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend and other Members have described the chaos that is still abroad in some of the areas ...
Lord Beith | 465 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has illustrated the ludicrous position in which the Government have placed themse...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c320 (Link to this contribution) What shocked the people of Northumberland was that although they had a vote that gave a mandate for ...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c318 (Link to this contribution) I took up that point with the Minister, who replied that he accepted that there had been a consultat...
Lord Beith | 465 c318 (Link to this contribution) I shall refer to that letter as well, because it throws a good deal of light on the process that is ...
Alistair Burt | 465 c317 (Link to this contribution) I always welcome the interventions of my hon. Friend, who gave invaluable help on the Opposition Fro...
Lord Beith | 465 c317-8 (Link to this contribution) I should declare an interest: my wife is a member of both Northumberland county council and Berwick ...
Alistair Burt | 465 c317 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes his point very well, and I share his concern. I agree that parishes are c...
Robert Syms | 465 c317 (Link to this contribution) There are some very small parish councils around, some of which are a thorn in the sides of district...
Alistair Burt | 465 c315-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to respond to the relatively new Minister for Local Government. He has not taken th...
Lord Deben | 465 c315 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister assure me that the extra powers, with which I am perfectly in agreement, would not ...
John Healey | 465 c315 (Link to this contribution) The arrangements and provisions in the Bill should not put the Secretary of State in the sort of pos...
John Healey | 465 c314 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 465 c314 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to take Lords amendments Nos. 2 to 23, 215 to 218, 238 and 239.
John Healey | 465 c314 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is about the greater devolution of power to local government, and about greater local democ...
Speaker | 465 c314 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Minister might just be metaphorically clearing his throat, but I should remind him that t...
John Healey | 465 c314-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I was aware of that, but I felt that it was important to s...
Speaker | 465 c333 (Link to this contribution) With this we may discuss Lords amendments Nos. 25 to 47, No. 48 and amendment (a) thereto, No. 49,. ...
Lord Stunell | 465 c356 (Link to this contribution) We too welcome these changes. We all see the common sense of clarifying the referendum arrangements ...
John Healey | 465 c356 (Link to this contribution) The points of my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham (Dr. Blackman-Woods) were well made, but ...
John Healey | 465 c356 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 465 c356 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to take Lords amendments Nos. 108 to 138 and 227 to 229.
John Healey | 465 c357 (Link to this contribution) The Government amendments in this group have all been made in response to concerns that were raised ...
Lord Stunell | 465 c358 (Link to this contribution) We, too, welcome many of the amendments. In particular, it is right that principal councils should b...
Robert Syms | 465 c358-9 (Link to this contribution) I echo the comments of the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell). Parish councils generally w...
John Healey | 465 c359 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, I shall respond briefly. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Hazel Gro...
Lord Beith | 465 c359 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister; I am sorry, but I was detained outside the Chamber for a moment. I ju...
Alistair Burt | 465 c352 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the capital of Switzerland is Berne, but I was just picking places in Switzerland ...
John Healey | 465 c354 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 465 c354 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to take Lords amendments Nos. 58 to 61, 63 to 72, 77, 79 to 85, 87, ...
Lord Stunell | 465 c352-3 (Link to this contribution) Once again, we have a group of Lords amendments that move the Bill in the right direction. Specifica...
Robert Syms | 465 c353-4 (Link to this contribution) I too welcome what the Minister has said, especially about dropping the directly elected executive p...
John Healey | 465 c354-5 (Link to this contribution) Like my predecessor, I have been in discussion with Members who represent Stoke-on-Trent and I was p...
Alistair Burt | 465 c355 (Link to this contribution) In general, I agree with the emerging point that the amendments are moving in the direction we want....
John Healey | 465 c354 (Link to this contribution) These amendments relate to part 3 of the Bill covering executive arrangements. The importance and va...
Joan Walley | 465 c354 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Minister will be aware that his predecessor in the post was in contact with MPs a...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 465 c355-6 (Link to this contribution) My comments relate to amendment No. 94. I should like my hon. Friend the Minister to give us some cl...
Speaker | 465 c367 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendments Nos. 176 to 201.
Lord Stunell | 465 c364-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right: I do have some issues that I want to raise. We rehearsed them quite tho...
Lord Stunell | 465 c366 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to receive an endorsement from that slightly unexpected quarter. It would be good to...
John Healey | 465 c366-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell) recognised that some of his questions would be matt...
Alistair Burt | 465 c363 (Link to this contribution) We are considering a difficult matter, which was the subject of much discussion and debate in the ot...
Lord Stunell | 465 c363-4 (Link to this contribution) Three possible offences come to mind: smoking in an enclosed public place, speeding and litter dropp...
Alistair Burt | 465 c364 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I greatly welcome the hon. Gentleman's intervention. Sadly, the history of the Standards Boa...
Alistair Burt | 465 c367 (Link to this contribution) Would it be possible to place in the Library a copy of the legal advice on the first point that we d...
John Healey | 465 c367 (Link to this contribution) I will not give the hon. Gentleman a commitment to make the legal advice available, but I will give ...
John Healey | 465 c360-1 (Link to this contribution) The amendments relate to what is commonly called a community call for action and to a significant ch...
Robert Neill | 465 c361-2 (Link to this contribution) We very much welcome this change of stance by the Government. I am grateful to the Minister for the ...
John Healey | 465 c360 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 465 c360 (Link to this contribution) With this we may discuss Lords amendments Nos. 144 to 147, 214 and 246.
Speaker | 465 c360 (Link to this contribution) With this we may discuss Lords amendments Nos. 140 to 142, 148 to 158, 165 to 174, 202 to 205, 207 t...
John Healey | 465 c360 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 465 c363 (Link to this contribution) With this we may discuss Lords amendments Nos. 160 to 164.
Lord Stunell | 465 c362-3 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the Minister has returned with proposals via the other place that reflect the conc...
John Healey | 465 c363 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Alistair Burt | 465 c335-7 (Link to this contribution) I draw attention to amendment (a) to amendment No. 48 that was tabled by me and my hon. Friends. I ...
John Healey | 465 c335 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If the argument is for a 12-month period between the order and t...
Alistair Burt | 465 c337 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will support that opinion with all his vigour.
Alistair Burt | 465 c337-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that, but I do not follow his argument. All that our amendme...
Andrew Gwynne | 465 c337 (Link to this contribution) Of course, as we learned recently, a week is a long time in politics; six months is almost an eterni...
Robert Syms | 465 c340 (Link to this contribution) I also want to speak to amendment No. 48. I do not like elections to be run on the same day. People...
Lord Stunell | 465 c338-9 (Link to this contribution) First, let me say that the string of Lords amendments that we are considering represent good progres...
Andrew Gwynne | 465 c335 (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as a member of Tameside metropolitan council until next May. Metropolitan dist...
John Healey | 465 c334-5 (Link to this contribution) We now move on to part 2 of the Bill, which deals with elections. In response to good debate, strong...
John Healey | 465 c351 (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments to part 3 would remove the provisions allowing councils to operate a direct...
Speaker | 465 c351 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendments Nos. 53 to 56, 62, 73 to 76, 78, 86, 88...
Alistair Burt | 465 c352 (Link to this contribution) The Minister could have argued for the return of the provisions, but as he has more than the modicum...
Lord Stunell | 465 c345 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the Minister giving way. He has given a clear hint of the Government's preference for J...
John Healey | 465 c345 (Link to this contribution) I have a lot of sympathy for the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) and the problem...
John Healey | 465 c351 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
John Healey | 465 c346-7 (Link to this contribution) Whatever the hon. Gentleman says, I have given no hint of anything. I am dealing with the facts of w...
Lord Beith | 465 c344-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point and provides me with a compelling initial argument, which appe...
Robert Syms | 465 c344 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right that the changes that we have considered for a new authority would...
Lord Beith | 465 c344 (Link to this contribution) I have not consulted the chief constable. I do not believe that he has a locus in the matter, except...
Lord Beith | 465 c343 (Link to this contribution) It is comforting that my constituency has been called Berwick-upon-Tweed for approximately 500 years...
Lord Deben | 465 c341-3 (Link to this contribution) I support the view that there should be at least a year before changes of this kind could be impleme...
Robert Syms | 465 c341 (Link to this contribution) It is very odd. However, more volatility is one of the features of modern politics. People are start...
Robert Syms | 465 c340 (Link to this contribution) If at all; if we did not go to 2010. As I said, elections should be, for example, clearly about loc...
Alistair Burt | 465 c357-8 (Link to this contribution) Before I comment on the group generally, I should like to throw out one or two questions, just to gi...
John Healey | 465 c360 (Link to this contribution) This group brings together a number of relatively minor and consequential amendments from across the...
Alistair Burt | 465 c352 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. We will all have to add a chief constable clause to future le...
Lord Stunell | 465 c352 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that the lack of enthusiasm for a committee system may have something ...
Ronnie Campbell | 465 c319 (Link to this contribution) Let me give the right hon. Gentleman the scenario. I received 51 per cent. of the vote in Blyth Vall...
Lord Deben | 465 c316-7 (Link to this contribution) The important part of what my hon. Friend has just read is the last bit, which refers to the fact th...
John Healey | 465 c363 (Link to this contribution) Lords amendments Nos. 159 to 163 would confirm in the Bill the circumstances in which the principles...
Lord Stunell | 465 c327 (Link to this contribution) I think that I shall let those remarks stand on their own. I understand that, as the hon. Lady right...
Subjects
Constituencies Councillors Community health councils Health services Elections Electoral Commission Functions Local government Misconduct Referendums Public participation Parish and town councils Local government executive Wales Social services Unitary councils Local involvement networks Patients' forums Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health Local Government Boundary Commission for England Northumberland
Legislation
Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill 2006-07
Link
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