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Debate on bill on Monday, 3 December 2007, in the House of Commons, led by James Plaskitt. The answering member was Andrew Selous.

Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill

Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill. [Relevant documents: The letter from the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Human Rights to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions dated 12th July and the Secretary of State's letter of reply dated 10th August.] Report stage. New clauses 1 and 2 debated and added to Bill. New clause 3 debated and negatived on division (184 to 262). New clause 5 debated and negatived on division (164 to 263). New clause 7 negatived on division (168 to 263). Amendment to clause 15 negatived on division (148 to 257). Third reading debate. Agreed to on question and passed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
468 c575-652 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
James Plaskitt | 468 c576-7 (Link to this contribution) I wish to discuss these amendments and new clauses in two groups. I shall begin with new clause 2 an...
James Plaskitt | 468 c575 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Show all contributions (140)
Speaker | 468 c575-6 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 5—Responsibilities of non-resid...
Paul Rowen | 468 c578 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not accept that Sir David Henshaw argued against the 12-month rule in his review o...
James Plaskitt | 468 c578 (Link to this contribution) I know that they are Sir David's words, and as he would expect, we debated that recommendation thoro...
James Plaskitt | 468 c578 (Link to this contribution) It does, because the arrangements will break down in some circumstances. If things break down, we wo...
Mike Weir | 468 c578 (Link to this contribution) I still do not follow what the Minister is saying. When I said, ““It does not matter,”” I was making...
James Plaskitt | 468 c578 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree that there is a disincentive. Some 20,000 such orders or minutes of agreement are mad...
Mike Weir | 468 c577 (Link to this contribution) Surely the proposal does not change the position that minutes of agreement are guaranteed for only o...
James Plaskitt | 468 c577 (Link to this contribution) These measures give the agreements the same status as court orders. They do not address the more sub...
Mike Weir | 468 c577 (Link to this contribution) The 12-month rule is still the problem, however. The Minister is saying that if, after 12 months and...
Paul Rowen | 468 c582 (Link to this contribution) I agree, but nothing in our amendment negates that fact.
James Plaskitt | 468 c582 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has quoted Sir David Henshaw. Does he also recall the very first recommendation o...
Paul Rowen | 468 c581-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. We want to reduce the number of cases that go to the Child...
Paul Rowen | 468 c581 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) said, the clause was discussed at len...
John Penrose | 468 c581 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that contrary to the Government's stated objective of trying to reduc...
Mike Weir | 468 c580 (Link to this contribution) Is not the position worse than that, because the Minister could be standing in the way of people com...
Andrew Selous | 468 c580-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree. The hon. Gentleman is right, and I pay tribute to him for the tenacity with which he has pu...
James Plaskitt | 468 c579 (Link to this contribution) The order may be more thorough, and that is why some parents who separate choose to go down that rou...
Andrew Selous | 468 c580 (Link to this contribution) This group of new clauses and amendments brings us back to an issue on which we spent a considerable...
James Plaskitt | 468 c579 (Link to this contribution) I will give way on that point once more, and then I want to make some progress.
John Penrose | 468 c579 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way. Does he agree that it is possible that a court can be more thor...
John Penrose | 468 c586-8 (Link to this contribution) It is all right, Mr. Speaker. I am prettier than my hon. Friend. I rise to agree with all the point...
Paul Rowen | 468 c582 (Link to this contribution) If some of our concerns about the staffing of CMEC and how it deals with the historic cases are not ...
Mike Weir | 468 c582 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that an agreement that can be enforced in the same way as a court orde...
Paul Rowen | 468 c583 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely. We need to ensure that the minutes of agreement have some strength and last longer...
Andrew Selous | 468 c583 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that new clause 5 and amendments Nos. 1 and 13 try to support the Gove...
John Penrose | 468 c584 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that in the absence of this proposal children are likely to be left without any ma...
Mike Weir | 468 c583 (Link to this contribution) I should like to speak to amendment No. 1, which stands in my name and those of the hon. Members for...
Speaker | 468 c586 (Link to this contribution) I call the hon. Gentleman—Mr. Carswell, is it?
Mike Weir | 468 c584-6 (Link to this contribution) It is enforceable in the same way as a court decree. The situation is slightly worse than the hon. G...
James Plaskitt | 468 c589 (Link to this contribution) I think that either the hon. Gentleman has misunderstood or I did not express myself clearly enough....
Paul Rowen | 468 c589 (Link to this contribution) I am puzzled by the Minister's comment about it not being possible to go back to the court. Amendmen...
James Plaskitt | 468 c588 (Link to this contribution) We have largely rehearsed a debate that we held in Committee. Indeed, we are almost a reunion of Com...
James Plaskitt | 468 c589 (Link to this contribution) CMEC is not a separation agency. It is there to ensure maintenance for children. That is the whole p...
Mike Weir | 468 c589 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the Minister is saying, but if the parties enter into a minute of agreement that d...
James Plaskitt | 468 c589 (Link to this contribution) I promised that I would deal with the point that the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare raised about ...
James Plaskitt | 468 c589 (Link to this contribution) I shall take a few more interventions on this, but we need to make some progress at some point.
James Plaskitt | 468 c591-2 (Link to this contribution) New clause 1 will make it a criminal offence for a non-resident parent not to report a change in his...
Andrew Selous | 468 c592 (Link to this contribution) I expect there to be much more agreement on these new clauses than there was on the last group of ne...
James Plaskitt | 468 c591 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 468 c591 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 6—Contact addresses—
John Penrose | 468 c590 (Link to this contribution) Let me return to the Minister's point about parents defining when something has broken down. The bur...
James Plaskitt | 468 c590-1 (Link to this contribution) I think that the two are entirely different. The point about the 25 per cent. boundary is that we ar...
Andrew Selous | 468 c590 (Link to this contribution) I agree that we need to make progress shortly, but let me have one more try with the Minister. Does ...
Paul Rowen | 468 c593 (Link to this contribution) I welcome these new clauses, as a serious issue highlighted in the Select Committee report is that t...
James Plaskitt | 468 c593-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) is entirely right that he raised this ma...
Andrew Selous | 468 c594 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Paul Rowen | 468 c598 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that our experience of the poll tax was that local councils dealt wit...
Mike Weir | 468 c599 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying, and I am not suggesting that the debt should be writ...
Andrew Selous | 468 c599 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman looks at the Bill, he will see that clauses 29 to 32 address debt management p...
Mike Weir | 468 c599 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification, which has put my mind at rest to some extent. How...
Speaker | 468 c594 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 7—Approval of Operational Plan...
Paul Rowen | 468 c596-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to new clause 7 and amendment No. 17. The latter would do what the hon. Member for Sou...
Mike Weir | 468 c598 (Link to this contribution) In principle, I support what hon. Members are trying to do. Like other hon. Members, I have many con...
Michael Clapham | 468 c606 (Link to this contribution) The judgment argued that there should be no compensation for pleural plaques, a condition caused by ...
Speaker | 468 c606 (Link to this contribution) Order. If hon. Members are not staying to take part in this debate or to listen to it, perhaps they ...
Andrew Selous | 468 c601-2 (Link to this contribution) I listened carefully, as always, to the Minister. I welcome the fact that the CSA's accounts have be...
Michael Clapham | 468 c606 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. I know that my hon. Friend has dealt closely with this complain...
Jim Sheridan | 468 c606 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend received legal advice from two senior Ministers, who assured him and me that the Law ...
James Plaskitt | 468 c601 (Link to this contribution) With respect, I do not think that the hon. Gentleman has made the case for making the detailed opera...
Paul Rowen | 468 c601 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not accept that there is a fundamental difference? Treasury guidance advises that ...
James Plaskitt | 468 c599-601 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Members for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), for Rochdale (Paul Ro...
Paul Rowen | 468 c613-4 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to support the new clause proposed by the hon. Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone ...
Jim Sheridan | 468 c612-3 (Link to this contribution) I intend to make only a brief contribution, as my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Peni...
Andrew Selous | 468 c611-2 (Link to this contribution) I have to tell the hon. Gentleman that I have no such statistics, but I think that they would be ver...
Andrew Selous | 468 c610-1 (Link to this contribution) As I have said, I would be happy for some compensation to be paid in what I am told is the less than...
Michael Clapham | 468 c610 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, because I had intended to say that the Bill allo...
Andrew Selous | 468 c610 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. Clapham), who follows this is...
Michael Clapham | 468 c609-10 (Link to this contribution) Part 4 is welcome, because it will make payments to mesothelioma sufferers available within six week...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 468 c617 (Link to this contribution) In Crewe, we have a whole generation—two or three generations, in fact—who after the war spent a gre...
James Plaskitt | 468 c617 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Gentleman's point that there has been a long history of such payments being ma...
James Plaskitt | 468 c617-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her comments and, again, I completely understand the point being...
Mike Weir | 468 c616 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. In the case of asbestosis, it has always been a problem to establish wh...
Jim Sheridan | 468 c615 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. The sums awarded in compensation for pleural plaques are minimal; we ar...
Paul Rowen | 468 c617 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the Minister is saying, but does he not accept that these payments have been made ...
James Plaskitt | 468 c616-7 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. Clapham), whose ass...
Mike Weir | 468 c614-5 (Link to this contribution) I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. Clapham). He could not ge...
Peter Kilfoyle | 468 c614 (Link to this contribution) I support the new clause tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. C...
Michael Clapham | 468 c608 (Link to this contribution) There was exaggeration, but we now have evidence to show that such exaggeration is wrong and that pl...
John Battle | 468 c608-9 (Link to this contribution) We are all grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the matter in the way in which he has done. Those ...
Michael Clapham | 468 c608 (Link to this contribution) The Scottish Parliament's decision to try to overturn the House of Lords decision is brave. As my ho...
Peter Kilfoyle | 468 c609 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware of the recent case of Bernie Banton in Australia and the sad circumstances s...
Michael Clapham | 468 c609 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is correct. If we consider the number of cases that have come to court in the p...
Jim McGovern | 468 c607 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is aware, of course, that pleural plaques can be detected only via an X-ray, but he i...
Michael Clapham | 468 c606-7 (Link to this contribution) I have no doubt that the Minister heard what my right hon. Friend said, and will take his point on b...
Anne Moffat | 468 c608 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend as astounded and disgusted as I am to hear that, during a meeting in this place ab...
Michael Clapham | 468 c607-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. If there is a physiological change, and the court judgment accepts that...
Michael Clapham | 468 c640 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may be aware that in 1974 the scheme for miners was introduced; it was followed b...
Andrew Selous | 468 c640 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. Clapham) for explaining the p...
Michael Clapham | 468 c638 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 15 in page 36, line 24, at end insert—
Speaker | 468 c638 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 16, page 40, line 36  in clause 49, after '...
Michael Clapham | 468 c638-40 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Minister will know that under the Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers Compensation) Act ...
David Hamilton | 468 c640 (Link to this contribution) When we talk about people in such a position, there is a fundamental difference. For example, someon...
James Plaskitt | 468 c631-4 (Link to this contribution) The group consists mainly of minor and technical Government amendments, but it also includes Opposit...
Andrew Selous | 468 c634 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation of the Government amendments, all of which seem en...
Paul Rowen | 468 c634 (Link to this contribution) May I thank the minister for Government amendment No. 3, which deals with parliamentary scrutiny—one...
Michael Clapham | 468 c640 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right in the sense that we would seek to maintain that principle of keeping the ge...
Mike Weir | 468 c651-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a brief contribution on Third Reading. I reiterate the Under-Secretary's comments abo...
Paul Rowen | 468 c649-50 (Link to this contribution) There has been a great deal of all-party agreement on the need for reform of the child support syste...
Michael Clapham | 468 c642 (Link to this contribution) In light of the assurances given by the Minister, I am prepared to do so. I beg to ask leave to with...
James Plaskitt | 468 c643-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Since its inception in 1993, the Child Sup...
Andrew Selous | 468 c640-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point of fact about that particular scheme. However, I ...
James Plaskitt | 468 c641-2 (Link to this contribution) Once again, I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. Clapham...
James Plaskitt | 468 c618 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend's concern about that, and there are undoubtedly questions for insurance ...
Andrew Selous | 468 c618 (Link to this contribution) A point has been made about the need to collect proper information in respect of people with pleural...
James Plaskitt | 468 c618-9 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point, and I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising it. I think that inf...
Michael Clapham | 468 c619 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister feel that there will be a chance to meet the Secretary of State for Justice to try...
Peter Kilfoyle | 468 c619-20 (Link to this contribution) Following on from the situation described by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Penist...
James Plaskitt | 468 c620 (Link to this contribution) Let me try to reassure my hon. Friend. It is incumbent on us to keep the relevant aspects of this si...
Anne Moffat | 468 c620 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is talking about what is incumbent on the Government. They should have a register so th...
James Plaskitt | 468 c620 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising those points; I shall say more about the register in a m...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 468 c620 (Link to this contribution) I cited the case of people who were young apprentices at the time and who now find themselves struck...
James Plaskitt | 468 c631 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 2, page 3, line 6, leave out subsection (6) and insert—
James Plaskitt | 468 c621-2 (Link to this contribution) I am able to confirm that the Government will explore, with key stakeholders, the idea of a register...
Michael Clapham | 468 c622 (Link to this contribution) The IIAC is especially important. As my hon. Friend knows, it has suggested that pleural plaques can...
James Plaskitt | 468 c620 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for underlining the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for East...
Michael Clapham | 468 c620-1 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister feel that rather than start structuring a register from the beginning, it would be...
James Plaskitt | 468 c622-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an important point that serves to underline the complexity of this issue. I ho...
Michael Clapham | 468 c623 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister is aware, the compensation recovery unit did not recover compensation from the claim...
James Plaskitt | 468 c622 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right that we see very many potential cases, although it can be difficult to obtai...
Jim Sheridan | 468 c622 (Link to this contribution) If, as forecast, Scotland legislates to reverse the decision, can my hon. Friend tell me what would ...
James Plaskitt | 468 c623 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend's point, and I am glad that he acknowledges our innovative funding of th...
Michael Clapham | 468 c623-4 (Link to this contribution) I hear what my hon. Friend the Minister has said. He has noted the feelings expressed by Labour Memb...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 468 c606 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend said that our hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire, North (Jim Sherida...
Jim Sheridan | 468 c618 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend will make any comment during his contribution about the smart-suited...
Andrew Selous | 468 c646-9 (Link to this contribution) This is an important Bill, which is urgently needed to ensure that we secure a better deal for the 3...
James Plaskitt | 468 c578 (Link to this contribution) We think that the right has to be in place, because if the terms of the agreement arrived at in cour...
James Plaskitt | 468 c590 (Link to this contribution) It would be a powerful point if there were any evidence of that effect—[Interruption.] Well, the 12-...
Andrew Selous | 468 c595-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Government will agree with the objectives of the new clause, which are primarily ...
Jim Sheridan | 468 c611 (Link to this contribution) Perish the thought. I wish to raise a point about the statistics. I understand what the hon. Member...
Michael Clapham | 468 c605 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. New clause 4 relates to part 4 and seeks to i...
Speaker | 468 c631 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government amendment No. 3. Amendment No....
James Plaskitt | 468 c619 (Link to this contribution) I entirely understand the point that my hon. Friend is making, and I encourage him to maintain a dia...
Subjects
Child support Children Compensation Appeals Crime Civil service Advisory services Asbestos Child Support Agency Fees and charges Information Industrial diseases Maintenance Parents Payments Parliamentary scrutiny Non-departmental public bodies Overseas residence Scotland Respiratory system Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission
Legislation
Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill 2006-07 to 2007-08
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk