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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Tuesday, 11 December 2007, in the House of Lords.

Climate Change Bill [HL]

Climate Change Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage first day. Clause 1 agreed to. Part 2 of 3 records.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
697 c150-88 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 697 c188 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, for his support at least for the spirit of the amendm...
Show all contributions (93)
Lord Rooker | 697 c188 (Link to this contribution) While the noble Lord was speaking I could not remember whether I had sat down or whether that was an...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c187-8 (Link to this contribution) We are having this argument a second time. I find it slightly difficult to understand why there shou...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c188 (Link to this contribution) As it is dinner time, I beg to move that the House do now resume and suggest that the Committee does...
Lord Rooker | 697 c187 (Link to this contribution) The amendment would cause disruption to the pattern of business and investment. Their offsets from t...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 697 c186-7 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to help the Minister to understand. I accept that he has parliamentary counsel and that the...
Lord Rooker | 697 c186 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way when I have finished this point otherwise I will lose my train of thought. I am hap...
Lord Rooker | 697 c180 (Link to this contribution) I think that I am listening to what I said; that is the last thing that I am saying. I was not sayin...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c180 (Link to this contribution) I cannot see the benefit of leaving it in. What do we lose by removing the reference to 60 per cent?...
Lord Rooker | 697 c178-80 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, partly gave the game away by saying what he personally thought and t...
Lord Teverson | 697 c180 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister clarify whether the Government will take the 60 per cent out of the Bill and leave ...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c177 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, I am a Spurs supporter and we take any victory that we can get.
Lord Redesdale | 697 c177 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the nature of the persuasive argument put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, that...
Bishop of Salisbury | 697 c177 (Link to this contribution) I fully understand what the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, says, but if the figure of 60 per cent goes on...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c178 (Link to this contribution) Did the noble Lord imply that he might come forward later saying, ““at least 80 per cent””?
Lord Redesdale | 697 c178 (Link to this contribution) The problem that I have in one respect, following on from the noble Baroness, Lady Young, is that I ...
Lord Rooker | 697 c181-2 (Link to this contribution) Given what we have said about the committee and the way in which it will be put together—its indepen...
Lord Teverson | 697 c182 (Link to this contribution) I thank every noble Lord who has contributed to the debate; I found it most useful. The Minister sai...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 697 c182-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8: 8: Clause 1, page 1, line 8, at end insert— ““(3) The 2050 target must be m...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c183 (Link to this contribution) I would genuinely have liked to have supported the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, on her amendment, pa...
Lord Teverson | 697 c184 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. I want to be clear about what it does. It does not stop carbon trading from...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c181 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend talked about losing credibility internationally. The international community knows t...
Lord Rooker | 697 c180-1 (Link to this contribution) We would lose a lot of credibility. My noble friend will be very isolated outside the House if he sa...
Lord Jay of Ewelme | 697 c181 (Link to this contribution) When is that first opportunity likely to be? Given that other states with which we want to maintain ...
Lord Redesdale | 697 c181 (Link to this contribution) We are leaving the matter up to the committee. If the committee says that 80 per cent is too low and...
Lord Rooker | 697 c181 (Link to this contribution) I understand that we shall have a debate on that very point after the dinner break. I can pontificat...
Earl of Onslow | 697 c170 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment and I am minded to do so because of a remark made by the noble Lord, Lord R...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c170-1 (Link to this contribution) We had some sympathy with this amendment, but it is a bit of a curate’s egg; it is good only in part...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c168-70 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 6: 6: Clause 1, page 1, line 5, leave out ““net UK carbon account”” and insert...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c168 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister might write to me about the major problems and put a copy of his letter in the ...
Lord Rooker | 697 c168 (Link to this contribution) I have answered as fully as I can this particular debate. I have no doubt that, at other stages of t...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c167-8 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to all Committee Members who have taken part in this debate from all sides o...
Lord Rooker | 697 c167 (Link to this contribution) I may be explaining it inadequately. The answer is probably yes, depending on the policies that are ...
Earl of Onslow | 697 c166-7 (Link to this contribution) A thought has just crossed my mind. Presumably, the Secretary of State would be open to judicial rev...
Lord Rooker | 697 c166 (Link to this contribution) Yes, it is. I fully appreciate that. To comply with the duty, the Secretary of State must first inau...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 697 c166 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister is the Secretary of State and the Bill has been passed and has become law, what does...
Lord Teverson | 697 c170 (Link to this contribution) This amendment, which I like very much in principle, highlights one of the main dilemmas of this Bil...
Lord Jay of Ewelme | 697 c175-6 (Link to this contribution) At the end of discussions in the Joint Committee, my view was that it was right to have a figure of ...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c176 (Link to this contribution) I oppose the amendment. The Bill provides for the Secretary of State to amend the figure. It provide...
Lord Teverson | 697 c173-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7: 7: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, leave out ““60%”” and insert ““80%”” The nobl...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c173 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is quite right but I wanted to have this discussion. As regards leadership pretensions,...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c175 (Link to this contribution) I was involved in quite an interesting debate on these matters yesterday evening with a number of co...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c174-5 (Link to this contribution) Much hangs on targets, but we do not see this amendment as relevant to the Bill’s intended operation...
Lord Teverson | 697 c171 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise with the noble Lord. There are two separate points here: one concerns measurement and t...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c171 (Link to this contribution) I speak along the same lines as the noble Lord on the Opposition Front Bench. This would strike at t...
Lord Rooker | 697 c172-3 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Woolmer almost stole my central point, but it is a good point to make. The amen...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c171-2 (Link to this contribution) This goes to the heart of one of the problems in taking a series of amendments in isolation from the...
Lord Teverson | 697 c186 (Link to this contribution) I have obviously been utterly ineffective in explaining this. One decides what to measure and busine...
Lord Rooker | 697 c186 (Link to this contribution) I am far from expert on this. On emissions trading, what does not count towards our UK target? The U...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c184-5 (Link to this contribution) I take up the noble Lord’s point. I am pleased that he is supportive of carbon trading until 2050. I...
Lord Rooker | 697 c185-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness made a point about the impact assessment. I have had a note to that effect. I wil...
Lord Rooker | 697 c165 (Link to this contribution) As I said, this is part of how we will ensure that the targets are met. This is an incredibly diffic...
Lord Vinson | 697 c165 (Link to this contribution) We are trying to introduce a clause that is totally unenforceable, but there is another major factor...
Lord Rooker | 697 c164 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept that, and I am grateful for the noble Lord’s practical examples. I am not saying that...
Earl of Onslow | 697 c164 (Link to this contribution) One thing is seriously worrying me. What happens in, say, 2035 when there has been a major slippage ...
Lord Rooker | 697 c163-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope what I have to say will be accepted as positive. This issue was raised at Second Reading, and...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 697 c164 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can help the Minister with an analogy. When we were in government, we had an objective to ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c163 (Link to this contribution) We welcome the spirit of this amendment but in detail, as we will see later, we disagree with the co...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 697 c161-2 (Link to this contribution) I do not seek in any egocentric way to interpolate a personal note, but it follows on the speech by ...
Lord Rooker | 697 c165-6 (Link to this contribution) I remember the noble Lord’s contribution on Second Reading. I was constrained from commenting on eve...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c160 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment. We probably devoted more time to this matter in the Joint Committee t...
Baroness Billingham | 697 c160 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment. As my noble friend Lord Puttnam has said, we spent hours deliberating...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 697 c161 (Link to this contribution) In the debate on the previous amendment, the Minister said that he was putting words into my mouth w...
Lord Rooker | 697 c157-8 (Link to this contribution) As I said a few minutes ago, there are areas of legislation where the Prime Minister is referred to....
Lord Redesdale | 697 c158-9 (Link to this contribution) There is a slight issue here. The fundamental point was not to raise the issue of the Prime Minister...
Earl of Onslow | 697 c160 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment. I have talked to my noble friend Lord Crickhowell who asked me to enter my...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c156-7 (Link to this contribution) The amendments to which we have put our name limit the responsibility of the Prime Minister to the p...
Lord Rooker | 697 c157 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept that point. I have no knowledge of future plans, but I suspect that, given the nature...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c157 (Link to this contribution) Could I point my noble friend to the issue of national security? We have defence, foreign affairs an...
Lord Rooker | 697 c156 (Link to this contribution) No wonder. I cast no aspersions on the noble Earl; I had forgotten about that. There again, he went ...
Earl of Selborne | 697 c155 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to add my support. Whenever you have a precedent—I am not sure whether or not this is...
Lord Rooker | 697 c155-6 (Link to this contribution) I must say at the outset that we do not think that this is a very sensible idea. I take the point ma...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c153 (Link to this contribution) A number of noble Lords have known what it is like to be blamed for government decisions. They have ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c153 (Link to this contribution) I draw the Committee’s attention to the speech of the Prime Minister on climate change at the Foreig...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c154 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment, which came out of our Joint Committee. I will also take a minute to unbemu...
Baroness Byford | 697 c154-5 (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, has just said. I have never had the privilege of servin...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c153-4 (Link to this contribution) I think this group of amendments is entirely misconceived. When I was a Minister, there were many oc...
Baroness Young of Old Scone | 697 c154 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to contradict the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, because of his huge and unique experien...
Lord Redesdale | 697 c150-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4: 4: Clause 1, page 1, line 5, leave out ““Secretary of State”” and insert ““...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c151-2 (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, on the amendment. I raised the point at Second Reading. Th...
Bishop of Salisbury | 697 c152 (Link to this contribution) Although I have already indicated why this is important, there is another feature worth consideratio...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c152-3 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to speak to the amendments. Once again, although there is some difference in detail, th...
Baroness Young of Old Scone | 697 c177 (Link to this contribution) I would very much regret it if we lost any reference to a percentage target from the Bill. If the fi...
Lord Redesdale | 697 c178 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the science, if you believe what has been said over the past few years, is that the...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c176-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise to follow precisely what the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, and my noble friend Lord Woolmer said. ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c162 (Link to this contribution) I presume from the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, that the debate that took place in ...
Lord Rooker | 697 c181 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, I did not quite follow what my noble friend said. If we take the figure out we have no f...
Duke of Montrose | 697 c162-3 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has done a great service by raising this topic and we have benefited from the wisdom...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c159-60 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5: 5: Clause 1, page 1, line 5, leave out ““ensure”” and insert ““develop poli...
Subjects
Accountability Climate change Carbon dioxide Environment protection Environment Government departments International cooperation EU emissions trading scheme Prime Minister Ministerial responsibility Pollution Pollution control Carbon emissions Climate Change Committee
Legislation
Climate Change Bill (HL) 2007-08
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
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