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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 12 December 2007, in the House of Lords.

Local Transport Bill [HL]

Local Transport Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage second day. Clauses 17 to 53 agreed to. Schedules 2 and 3 agreed to. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
697 c113-74GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Transport
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Deposited Paper DEP2007-0307
Tuesday, 11 December 2007
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2008-0001
Wednesday, 12 December 2007
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Earl Attlee | 697 c141-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46: 46: Clause 24, page 23, line 23, leave out ““who was consulted by the auth...
Lord Rosser | 697 c149-53GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 59: 59: Clause 38, page 34, leave out lines 4 to 13 and insert— ““(1) Where su...
Show all contributions (90)
Lord Rosser | 697 c159-60GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 61: 61: Schedule 2, page 90, line 30, at end insert— ““(4) After sub-paragraph...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c168GC (Link to this contribution) This is really a probing amendment to consider different ways in which it might work and to hear the...
Lord Rosser | 697 c121-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24: 24: Clause 18, page 17, line 23, leave out ““proposed”” The noble Lord sa...
Lord Rosser | 697 c127GC (Link to this contribution) That is an incorrect statement. All my questions were addressed to my noble friend who will be respo...
Lord Tordoff | 697 c113GC (Link to this contribution) I start by making the usual statement that if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sittin...
Earl Attlee | 697 c143GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s response. Of course, experienced parliamentarians know that there a...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c142-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, and I entirely agree that neighbouring local authoriti...
Lord Rosser | 697 c143-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49: 49: Clause 25, page 25, line 18, leave out subsection (6) and insert— ““(6...
Lord Rosser | 697 c139GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 25 to 33 n...
Earl Attlee | 697 c139-40GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 37: 37: Clause 19, page 18, line 18, after ““newspaper”” insert ““and one talk...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c141GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, in the sense that it will be covered in guidance, the same point applies to the amendment of th...
Earl Attlee | 697 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s carefully considered response. I was careful not to comment on the ...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c147-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Rosser and to the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield. We have two s...
Lord Rosser | 697 c149GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of that response, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdraw...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c145GC (Link to this contribution) I will deal with the second issue first. In those circumstances, one would expect the bus operator t...
Lord Rosser | 697 c145GC (Link to this contribution) I want to ensure that I have understood the point that has been made. On the second amendment, I thi...
Lord Geddes | 697 c158GC (Link to this contribution) If it is not said, the amendment cannot be moved.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c155-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. A vast range of subjects has be...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c161-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62A: 62A: After Clause 41, insert the following new Clause— ““Reimbursement of...
Lord Rosser | 697 c161GC (Link to this contribution) I note my noble friend's statement that he believes that what I seek to achieve through the amendmen...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c163GC (Link to this contribution) From the perspective of someone who lives in Scotland, when I looked at the scheme for England, I re...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c165GC (Link to this contribution) I did not take the legislation through the House. Although I was tangentially aware of some of those...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c169-70GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 63: 63: After Clause 45, insert the following new Clause— ““Fees for registrat...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c168GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the amendment adds much to the Bill, nor do I think that it will improve it. For...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c174GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until 3.30 pm on Monday 17 December.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c119GC (Link to this contribution) There apparently are a few considering the approach, but we do not have any hard and fast data at th...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c121GC (Link to this contribution) I always listen very carefully to my noble friend because what he says is grounded in the realities ...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c121GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Snape, for his contribution. ...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c114GC (Link to this contribution) If we manage to finish at a reasonable time on Tuesday, that is—
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c113GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 22: 22: Clause 17, page 17, line 10, leave out ““not”” The noble Lord said: A...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c138-9GC (Link to this contribution) I ought to try to respond to my noble friend’s reiterated questions. It is the case that in Governme...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c131-4GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a very stimulating and interesting debate, and I congratulate my noble friend Lord Ros...
Lord Snape | 697 c136-7GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, replies—again, I apologise for detaining the Committee for a mom...
Earl Attlee | 697 c153-4GC (Link to this contribution) I have tabled Amendment No. 60 in this group. The introduction of the TUPE provisions in Clause 38, ...
Lord Rosser | 697 c146GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 25 agreed to. Claus...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c144-5GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Rosser has made some interesting and valid points, but in the end I am not conv...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c157-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 60A: 60A: Clause 40, page 34, line 42, at end insert— ““(d) agreements between...
Lord Snape | 697 c154-5GC (Link to this contribution) Both amendments relate to very serious points. For the first time in Committee, I agree entirely wit...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c160GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lady Scott had indicated her intention to oppose the Question that the schedule stan...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c163GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, is to be congratulated on his persistence on this issue. I recogn...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c164-5GC (Link to this contribution) As the Minister knows, I am very much a localist, but during the course of the legislation, there wa...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c165-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that answer. We have talked about partnership today. The problem that I hav...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c166GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62B: 62B: Clause 42, page 37, line 32, at end insert— ““(d) place minimum peri...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c167-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62C: 62C: Clause 43, page 39, line 25, at end insert— ““(6A) If the traffic co...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c167GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that answer. I moved the amendment to try to create some stability. We al...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c169GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Cla...
Lord Rowlands | 697 c116GC (Link to this contribution) I want to ask the Minister briefly about the application of these quality contract schemes to Wales....
Lord Snape | 697 c116-7GC (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to detain the Committee by having a Second Reading debate on quality contracts and the...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c117-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to the debate, and I will try to deal particularly...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c115-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23: 23: Clause 18, page 17, line 20, leave out subsection (2) The noble Lord ...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c119GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord have knowledge of any authorities that want to take up quality contracts?
Lord Snape | 697 c119-20GC (Link to this contribution) I have no wish to detain your Lordships unduly, but I want to raise two points arising from the Mini...
Lord Smith of Leigh | 697 c125-6GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s amendments. This is the second time that we have tried to amend the disa...
Lord Snape | 697 c128-31GC (Link to this contribution) Ministerial gratitude is not a commodity that is in long supply at the best of times. I am afraid th...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c134GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister confirm that a judicial review of the running of the tribunal is a possibility? I c...
Lord Rosser | 697 c137-8GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend said that he will respond to the questions that he has not covered in his response—t...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c140-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, for the passionate way in which he has put forward the...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c141GC (Link to this contribution) I know that the noble Lord, Lord Low of Dalston, is not present, but did the Minister reply to his A...
Lord Rosser | 697 c146-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58: 58: Clause 37, page 33, line 35, at end insert— ““( ) Before issuing or mo...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c147GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Clause 37 stand part. We are told that the Bill will put power into the hands of lo...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c158-9GC (Link to this contribution) My speaking note does not take account of the noble Earl’s contribution, but I shall deal with the i...
Lord Geddes | 697 c158GC (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Earl meant to say at the beginning, ““On behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Berke...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c158GC (Link to this contribution) I am not certain I can say that because I had no prior agreement with him.
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c158GC (Link to this contribution) On behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, I beg to move.
Lord Rosser | 697 c157GC (Link to this contribution) As my noble friend has said that he will take the issue away and look further at it—although I appre...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c159GC (Link to this contribution) I think that I am quite happy with the Minister’s answer. On behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c160-1GC (Link to this contribution) We are well aware that competition legislation can place constraints on operators and local authorit...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c163-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am due to go to a 60th wedding anniversary celebration in the new year when I shall test the guest...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c163GC (Link to this contribution) It is being talked about in local government circles.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c166-7GC (Link to this contribution) We are a bit puzzled by some of the reasoning behind the amendment. If a traffic commissioner is cal...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c168GC (Link to this contribution) This is an intriguing amendment for one or two reasons that I shall illuminate. In a quality contrac...
Earl Attlee | 697 c170-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 63A: 63A: Clause 54, page 47, line 10, after ““operator””)”” insert ““consiste...
Earl Attlee | 697 c174GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the way in which the Minister gently declined my carefully thought out amendments....
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c171-3GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl has made some interesting points about punctuality enforcement, although I do not see...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c115GC (Link to this contribution) No one wants to be bogged down in consultation that is never-ending. I repeat, as the Minister said,...
Lord Tordoff | 697 c115GC (Link to this contribution) In calling Amendment No. 23, I should point out that, were it to be agreed to, I should not be able ...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c126-7GC (Link to this contribution) I was around during the passage of the 2000 Bill. It seems like only yesterday. It is a matter of re...
Lord Snape | 697 c127GC (Link to this contribution) I found the contributions of both my noble friends interesting—not 100 per cent accurate, but intere...
Lord Snape | 697 c128GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful but I am also in some ways sorry because I always enjoy exchanges with the noble Lord....
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c114-5GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that the noble Lord has other responsibilities, and I am very sensitive to that. I shal...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c114GC (Link to this contribution) Before I get on to the amendment, I want to record my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, a...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c135-6GC (Link to this contribution) Of course, if there is disagreement with the decision and if there are reasonable grounds it will be...
Lord Rosser | 697 c137GC (Link to this contribution) I will read our proceedings in Hansard to check, but I am not sure that I laboured the point of comp...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c137GC (Link to this contribution) Actually, I think that it was the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Leigh. Without wanting to labour the poi...
Subjects
Disability Conditions of employment Contracts Appeals Bus services Competition Concessions Fares Franchises Local government Pensions Public transport Staff Partnerships Visual impairment Transport Traffic Commissioners Transport Tribunal
Legislation
Local Transport Bill (HL) 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk