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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 10 January 2008, in the House of Lords.

Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL]

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
697 c329-86GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Treasury
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Newby | 697 c346GC (Link to this contribution) I assumed that this amendment states what would happen anyway. Going back to our earlier discussions...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c340GC (Link to this contribution) I would not want to be accused of excessive naivety about how financial institutions work. We should...
Show all contributions (107)
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c337-8GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 10 sets out the minimum conditions that an account must meet to be regarded as dormant. No-ma...
Bishop of Chelmsford | 697 c370GC (Link to this contribution) It is important that we are focused when thinking about how the money is to be used. If confidence i...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c364-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 50: 50: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— ““Report on the dorm...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c348GC (Link to this contribution) We have already cantered around this course several times and each of the jumps is becoming increasi...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c352-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 43: 43: Clause 10, page 6, line 34, at end insert— ““( ) The Treasury may by o...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 697 c329-30GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 34: 34: Clause 9, page 6, line 11, leave out ““an account that”” and insert ““...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c343GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is fertile in producing some interesting illustrations of how dormancy may not be...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c343-4GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that the definition in Clause 10 would cover the situation, but I put to him that ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c344GC (Link to this contribution) The definitions of dormancy are limited because they mean that a customer sees those resources going...
Lord Monson | 697 c346GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, is far too modest about this amendment, which is excellent. It has ...
Lord Newby | 697 c341GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the Minister a question that I should probably have raised under another amendment...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c341-2GC (Link to this contribution) The answer to the noble Lord is definitively yes. Instructions would have been given and the bank wo...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c342-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 40: 40: Clause 10, page 6, line 34, at end insert ““, or ( ) the bank or build...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c337GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Monson, has raised an important point. A person may well instruct a bank not to...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c340GC (Link to this contribution) I imagine that all noble Lords share that sentiment.
Baroness Noakes | 697 c340GC (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords that have spoken. I accept that there is always the possibility that reuniting c...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c339-40GC (Link to this contribution) It is not a point of substance, but the Minister said that it would be an insensitive and extraordin...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c336GC (Link to this contribution) I did say that it was a probing amendment. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for his support. He h...
Lord Monson | 697 c336-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 37: 37: Clause 10, page 6, line 30, after ““account”” insert ““, other than to...
Bishop of Chelmsford | 697 c379GC (Link to this contribution) I support the tenor of those remarks. I have not checked the accuracy of my figures, but the Committ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c379GC (Link to this contribution) What would the right reverend Prelate think of the ““Resurrection Fund””?
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c376-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to both noble Lords who have spoken and, like the noble Lord, Lord Howard, regret the ...
Lord Newby | 697 c374GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. As I made clear at the start, these are probing amend...
Lord Howard of Rising | 697 c369-70GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Newby, has pointed out, we have reached the point of deciding how to spend t...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 697 c366GC (Link to this contribution) That is a very interesting answer. Will the review look at whether the scheme can be expanded to bri...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 697 c382GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister's comments. ““Reawakened”” seems a quite logical name for something w...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c382-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 57: 57: Clause 15, page 7, line 38, leave out from ““and”” to end and insert “...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c385-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the tenor of the Minister’s reply. He did not answer all the points that I made, w...
Lord Newby | 697 c365GC (Link to this contribution) We support the amendment very strongly. Our view is that the scheme is at best a hybrid scheme. It c...
Lord Bach | 697 c365-6GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment is very clear. Let us consider what we are doing here. The legislation enables a volun...
Bishop of Chelmsford | 697 c365GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment. There are issues of transparency and accountability, and it would giv...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c351GC (Link to this contribution) If a claimant or their heirs is able to attest that there was an account that was in existence for a...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 697 c351-2GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may have another go. I read out what the British Bankers’ Association said in the paper th...
Lord Newby | 697 c355GC (Link to this contribution) We support the amendment, and our names have been attached to it. Fifteen years is not an unreasonab...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c356GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for his support. The Minister was almost not addressing the amen...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c356GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment, as I sincerely hope she will, she has made a pers...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c358-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46: 46: After Clause 12, insert the following new Clause— ““Powers of Informat...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c356-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 45A: 45A: Clause 12, page 7, line 12, after first ““fund”” insert ““any”” The...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c345GC (Link to this contribution) I think that we will be returning to this topic on Report because the Minister consistently articula...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c345-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 41: 41: Clause 10, page 6, line 34, at end insert ““, or ( ) the bank or build...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c346-7GC (Link to this contribution) Well, I think I have been guilty of making things too obvious. Let me emphasise that I would have th...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c347-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 41A: 41A: Clause 10, page 6, line 34, at end insert ““, or ( ) the bank was aw...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c340GC (Link to this contribution) No, but the Minister did suggest that the banks would be out there exercising discretion to make thi...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c342GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I will consider his response carefully and I beg leave to withdraw th...
Lord Monson | 697 c338GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, for her provisional support. For the reason I spec...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c339GC (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Newby, says, but we are making strenuous efforts with this legislat...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c338GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 38: 38: Clause 10, page 6, line 30, after ““account,”” insert— ““( ) the bank ...
Lord Newby | 697 c339GC (Link to this contribution) This is a sensible amendment. I have two comments. First, in the case of someone like Aung San Suu K...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c330-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, has been profitably engaged over the Recess, or just afte...
Lord Newby | 697 c334GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness said, the substance of this amendment appears to have been accepted by the BBA...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c334-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken on this amendment. As I have emphasised time and again,...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c333GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply, which was a much better reply than he gave me during our previo...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c372-4GC (Link to this contribution) Not at all. We will follow the principle of additionality. It is very important that we should, whic...
Viscount Eccles | 697 c370-1GC (Link to this contribution) It is true that a public body is much more comfortable with spending money on 3D assets—bricks and m...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c371-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have participated in this interesting debate. We have certainly...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c366-7GC (Link to this contribution) We are promised some unspecified jam at some unspecified time. The Minister cannot have expected me ...
Viscount Eccles | 697 c380-1GC (Link to this contribution) I want to ask the Minister to do something, and at a later stage we might discuss it. I want him to ...
Lord Howard of Rising | 697 c379-80GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendment No. 62 which is grouped with Amendment No. 54. This small amendment is de...
Lord Bach | 697 c381-2GC (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate on the independence of the dormant fund money spent by the Big L...
Lord Bach | 697 c383-5GC (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Baroness on the way in which she put her amendment and I absolutely appreci...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c386GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient time for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.
Lord Bach | 697 c361-2GC (Link to this contribution) We agree with the noble Baroness that the scheme should be transparent. We agree that information on...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c362GC (Link to this contribution) I should be grateful if the Minister would come back to me on the question of charitable contributio...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c348-9GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister almost makes the case for my amendments, but draws back at the end by saying that altho...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c350GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Shutt, raised an interesting point there. I completely understand the distincti...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c350GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord because he recognises what we are seeking to achieve with this techn...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, on this. We are talking about the identification of the accoun...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c352GC (Link to this contribution) I remember at Second Reading the noble Lord saying that a relative of his had left him 15 shillings,...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c355GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Newby, argued his case forcefully. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, kindly argu...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c360-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 47: 47: Clause 13, page 7, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) Where the directors o...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c359-60GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister's response was wholly predictable. I put the Minister on notice that we regard the Info...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c357-8GC (Link to this contribution) I entirely recognise the concerns outlined by the Minister. The point of the amendment put to us by ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c357GC (Link to this contribution) Banks and building societies are normally under a duty not to disclose information about their custo...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c356GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. That is almost victory in terms of the conduct of our Committee to da...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c361GC (Link to this contribution) I also support the amendment moved by my noble friend. It strikes me that competition is very import...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c347GC (Link to this contribution) The Government are making very encouraging noises about my amendment. I think the Minister said that...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c340-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 39: 39: Clause 10, page 6, line 34, at end insert ““, or ( ) the bank or build...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c342GC (Link to this contribution) I asked whether subsection (1) dealt with that. The account sits there; no transaction goes through ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c342GC (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point. It is so interesting that I am lost in interest rather than able to pr...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 697 c331GC (Link to this contribution) I am far from clear that the Minister understands where I am coming from on this matter. We have rec...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c331-2GC (Link to this contribution) I gave notice that I intended to oppose the Question that Clause 9 shall stand part. At our last Sit...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c332-3GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness said, she promised to return to this and I knew that she would fulfil her prom...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c333-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 36: 36: Clause 10, page 6, line 25, at end insert— ““( ) An account cannot be ...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 697 c378-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 54: 54: Clause 15, page 7, line 33, after ““Fund”” insert ““, under the name o...
Lord Howard of Rising | 697 c378GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his kind comments about my noble friend Lord Astor. I am sure he w...
Viscount Eccles | 697 c375-6GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee will recognise that this is not my number one solution; that would be to have a privat...
Lord Howard of Rising | 697 c374-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 53: 53: Clause 15, page 7, line 33, leave out ““Big Lottery Fund”” and insert ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c372GC (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that new centres being built by unclaimed assets is not committed money, but ...
Lord Newby | 697 c367-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51: 51: Clause 15, page 7, line 33, leave out subsection (1) The noble Lord s...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c369GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Newby, mentioned the £250 million referred to in my amendment for the social in...
Lord Bach | 697 c366GC (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, on seizing the moment—this late on a Thursday afternoon, ...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 697 c386GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Tuesday 15 January at 3.30 pm.
Lord Bach | 697 c362-3GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot tell the noble Lord exactly how it will be done, but I take his point about year-on-year ac...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c363-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank other Members of the Committee who have spoken in this short debate. I am grateful for the M...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 697 c365GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, strongly support the amendment. So much legislation that goes through simply disappears into...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 697 c349-50GC (Link to this contribution) I would like to speak to this amendment, because I referred to it earlier when I moved the first ame...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c349GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 42: 42: Clause 10, page 6, line 34, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of s...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c350-1GC (Link to this contribution) Let me try to explain again what I think that the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, and I are trying to get at...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c350GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I can respond to the noble Baroness’ interesting but challenging question directl...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c353GC (Link to this contribution) I can assure the noble Lord that it is not shared by those on my side of the Committee. The Minister...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c353GC (Link to this contribution) I never thought I would see the day when the noble Baroness was eager to see the Treasury have addit...
Baroness Noakes | 697 c354-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 44: 44: Clause 10, page 6, line 38, at end insert— ““(4) The Treasury may by o...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 697 c359GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness fairly described the powers of the Information Commissioner and I do not need to ...
Lord Newby | 697 c361GC (Link to this contribution) We support the amendments. There are several reasons for believing that it makes sense for the publi...
Subjects
Disclosure of information Codes of practice Assets Bank services Banks Building societies Fraud Education Environment Interest charges Lotteries Young people Repayments Big Lottery Fund Information Commissioner's Office Olympic Games 2012
Legislation
Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill (HL) 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk