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Opposition day on Tuesday, 17 June 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Lansley. The answering member was Alan Johnson.

Polyclinics

Polyclinics. Fourteenth opposition day debate (part 1). Motion negatived on division (298 to 202). Amendment agreed on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
477 c809-66 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department of Health
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 477 c841 (Link to this contribution) Order. In order to be fair to the seven hon. Members who are seeking to take part in the debate, I a...
Speaker | 477 c835 (Link to this contribution) Order. Mr. Speaker placed a time limit of 12 minutes on Back-Bench speeches in this debate. It is no...
Show all contributions (139)
Lord Lansley | 477 c809 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House opposes the Government's plans to impose a polyclinic, or GP-led heal...
Lord Lansley | 477 c809 (Link to this contribution) No. The right hon. Gentleman should remember that back in January 2006, the Government promised to p...
Tony Wright | 477 c810 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned petitions; I went to see my GP the other day, and the receptionist was ...
Lord Lansley | 477 c809-10 (Link to this contribution) No, I will answer the right hon. Gentleman's first question before I come on to the next one. The po...
Lord Lansley | 477 c810 (Link to this contribution) It is the British Medical Association's petition, not mine. The Secretary of State and the Minister ...
Tony Baldry | 477 c814 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has said that the situation is absurd, but there is a further bizarre twist. Is he aw...
Lord Lansley | 477 c813-4 (Link to this contribution) Nobody could responsibly say that ““regardless of the quality of care””. The hon. Lady has said that...
Simon Burns | 477 c812 (Link to this contribution) I assure my hon. Friend that certainly GPs in Chelmsford do not think that he is scaremongering in a...
Lord Lansley | 477 c813 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who has gone to the heart of the issue. At the moment, the Governme...
Lord Redwood | 477 c812 (Link to this contribution) Is not the central point that we are very happy to see polyclinics if they are additional and wanted...
Lord Lansley | 477 c812 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and my right hon. Friend has a reasonable complaint if the Government are providing additio...
Alan Johnson | 477 c812 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has twice mentioned my constituency. What Hull is doing of its own volition is go...
Lord Lansley | 477 c812 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is getting desperate. I have here the presentation document from Hull PCT. If...
Lord Lansley | 477 c811-2 (Link to this contribution) That is quite interesting, but the hon. Lady needs to look at the material published by the North Ea...
Lord Lansley | 477 c811 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Shona McIsaac), but perhaps the hon. Member for ...
Shona McIsaac | 477 c811 (Link to this contribution) I ask the hon. Gentleman to follow up what was said by my right hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorp...
Peter Bottomley | 477 c810 (Link to this contribution) Is not the point that over the past 10 years the Government have set up a system for commissioning, ...
Lord Lansley | 477 c810 (Link to this contribution) Yes, it is, and that is the way in which the Government now work. It is simple to say why GPs and pa...
Lord Lansley | 477 c811 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, and he rightly reflects precisely the kind of points that ar...
Lord Lansley | 477 c810 (Link to this contribution) I will come to the hon. Lady in a minute. The first point to make clear is that the Government could...
Lord Lansley | 477 c816 (Link to this contribution) I commend to the hon. Gentleman our document, ““The patient will see you now, doctor””, published la...
Alan Johnson | 477 c819 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, To leave out from ““House”” to end and to add instead thereof:"““welcomes the Governm...
Howard Stoate | 477 c816-7 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman is concentrating too much on one particular type of polyclinic. Ther...
Lord Lansley | 477 c817 (Link to this contribution) I have heard that before. The fact is that if there were going to be a hub and spoke model in London...
Lord Lansley | 477 c816 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can explain how patients will benefit from this centralisation of service...
Lord Lansley | 477 c818-9 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall finish now, if my hon. Friend will forgive me. If the structure proposed forces local G...
David Leslie Taylor | 477 c817 (Link to this contribution) The official Opposition are coming rather late to this issue. People such as myself tabled early-day...
Lord Lansley | 477 c817-8 (Link to this contribution) It is not there because when I have talked to, for example, GPs in Islington who were very unhappy a...
Lord Lansley | 477 c816 (Link to this contribution) I mentioned Cornwall, so I must give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Andrew George | 477 c816 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman in so far as the Government will end up with another independent tre...
Lord Lansley | 477 c814 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. Pulse recently looked at the proposals in respect of PCTs, and only a t...
Robert Goodwill | 477 c814 (Link to this contribution) If the aim of the proposal is to force the closure of single-handed practices, why are the Governmen...
Lord Lansley | 477 c814 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State says that my hon. Friend can work it out. The reason may be that the chairman...
Graham Stuart | 477 c815 (Link to this contribution) May I thank my hon. Friend for supporting my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Mr. Kn...
Lord Lansley | 477 c815 (Link to this contribution) It is risible. My hon. Friend will know that from his experience, as will my right hon. Friend the M...
Lord Lansley | 477 c815-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not give way. The hon. Member for Regent's Park and Kensington, North was quite right t...
Alan Johnson | 477 c819 (Link to this contribution) Conservative Members claim that the accusation of privatisation comes from behind me, but it appears...
Alan Johnson | 477 c820 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend's experience is replicated throughout the country. We are supposed to have three ult...
Michael Jabez Foster | 477 c820 (Link to this contribution) The GPs of Hastings and Rye are not persuaded that the BMA has got it right. Not one has complained....
Joan Ryan | 477 c820 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) mentioned north London. In my constituency, t...
Angela Watkinson | 477 c821 (Link to this contribution) One of the justifications for polyclinics is the extension of GP availability. Healthcare for London...
Alan Johnson | 477 c822 (Link to this contribution) I think that that is the Opposition's policy—give the money to the BMA and it will decide how to spe...
Lynne Jones | 477 c822 (Link to this contribution) I certainly welcome the additional investment in primary care, but whatever the problems in London, ...
Lord Redwood | 477 c822 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State tell us what the total cost will be of this elaborate reorganisation?
Alan Johnson | 477 c822 (Link to this contribution) Let us stick to London for a second.
Graham Stuart | 477 c821-2 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is talking to a large extent about London. Can he tell my constituents why he...
Alan Johnson | 477 c821 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is referring to the Healthcare Commission report, which was not a London-only survey a...
Alan Johnson | 477 c820-1 (Link to this contribution) I am suggesting that the hon. Lady, like her colleagues on overview and scrutiny committees througho...
Jacqui Lait | 477 c820 (Link to this contribution) If the footfall of a centralised primary care centre is 50,000 people, that adds up to about 50 per ...
Alan Johnson | 477 c820 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an important point about health services in London. We had no role in the...
Alan Johnson | 477 c824 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Member for Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley).
Peter Bottomley | 477 c824 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is trying to share as much information with the House as possible. Is it not ...
Alan Johnson | 477 c824 (Link to this contribution) It is absolutely the case that we are saying that in the interests of greater capacity, greater pati...
Mark Francois | 477 c824 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Secretary of State for his courtesy in giving way again. I suspect that hon. Members on ...
Alan Johnson | 477 c824 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point entirely. That is not part of our proposals.
Andrew George | 477 c825 (Link to this contribution) Further to the point raised by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Lynne Jones), if the Secre...
Alan Johnson | 477 c825 (Link to this contribution) We have specified three conditions. The centres must be centrally located, must be open from 8 am un...
Harry Cohen | 477 c825 (Link to this contribution) Members of the BMA are not the only people to comment on the proposals. The Royal College of Midwive...
Norman Lamb | 477 c822 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State accused a Member on his own side of the House of adopting the policy of the B...
Alan Johnson | 477 c823 (Link to this contribution) I have not seen that particular circular, but that is exactly what I am trying to explain. In London...
Clive Efford | 477 c823 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency, we are about to rebuild a new local hospital which will be a 24/7, GP-led urgent...
Alan Johnson | 477 c823 (Link to this contribution) That is what we are doing—[Interruption.] I am talking about what is happening in London; I will com...
Tony Wright | 477 c823 (Link to this contribution) Is it not interesting to note that the BMA—when not campaigning and producing petitions—wrote a few ...
Alan Johnson | 477 c824 (Link to this contribution) I just mentioned that—[Interruption.] I did. I said that the third condition allows patients to be r...
Alan Johnson | 477 c823 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very powerful point. The Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Exe...
Lord Lansley | 477 c823-4 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State says that those are the only requirements, but surely it is a requirement tha...
Robert Goodwill | 477 c839-40 (Link to this contribution) I thank you for that guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am trying to show where we need better spending...
Speaker | 477 c839 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but he is going into considerable detail on a mat...
Lynne Jones | 477 c841 (Link to this contribution) The debate has shown that needs differ throughout the country. I cannot understand why the Governmen...
Norman Lamb | 477 c835 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Everyone outside this place uses the term...
Robert Goodwill | 477 c835 (Link to this contribution) I have the minutes of the North Yorkshire and York primary care trust clinical executive meeting in ...
Frank Dobson | 477 c835-8 (Link to this contribution) I am in no position to comment on the appropriateness or otherwise of polyclinics—or whatever the Go...
Robert Goodwill | 477 c838-9 (Link to this contribution) My constituents in Scarborough are perplexed, confused and angered by the proposals. If the Minister...
Speaker | 477 c838 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have to curtail the right hon. Gentleman at that point.
Ben Bradshaw | 477 c835 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is discussing pilots and polyclinics. He may be interested to know, if he does no...
Norman Lamb | 477 c831-4 (Link to this contribution) That might be a concern, but my argument is that these new mechanisms for delivering care should be ...
Lee Scott | 477 c831 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my concerns about the fact that Lord Darzi said in his report that man...
Norman Lamb | 477 c830-1 (Link to this contribution) It is surely a spectacular achievement by the Government to have taken a concept that is clearly wor...
Norman Lamb | 477 c835 (Link to this contribution) As I have said, the King's Fund has highlighted the fact that GP-led health centres across the count...
Alan Johnson | 477 c829 (Link to this contribution) It sounds to me that building capacity to absorb a growing population is absolutely right; this new ...
Alan Johnson | 477 c830 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. Such scurrilous leaflets ignore or patronise the central player in this debate: the...
Graham Stuart | 477 c829 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Alan Johnson | 477 c829 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way. The allegation is made by the Conservative party that every one of thes...
Maria Miller | 477 c828 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Secretary of State can clarify something for me. He is at pains to say that his proposal...
Alan Johnson | 477 c828 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the elderly, who use health services more and, as Age Concer...
Mike Gapes | 477 c828 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Alan Johnson | 477 c827 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly give way to the hon. Gentleman shortly. Many PCTs are looking to provide other ser...
Greg Mulholland | 477 c828 (Link to this contribution) I think the Secretary of State gave a rather one-sided view of the Age Concern briefing that he ment...
Alan Johnson | 477 c828 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way for a while Therefore, having invested heavily in primary care and increase...
Graham Stuart | 477 c827 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Alan Johnson | 477 c827 (Link to this contribution) It is stated that the Tories claim that 608 practices may close in 58 PCTs. [Interruption.] Well, I ...
Greg Mulholland | 477 c827 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Alan Johnson | 477 c827 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to make some progress. I will give way to the hon. Gentleman again later, if I get a chan...
Alan Johnson | 477 c826 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend refers to Barnsley. There has been a ridiculous Conservative press release today clai...
Eric Illsley | 477 c826 (Link to this contribution) We in Barnsley are looking forward to having a super-surgery—or polyclinic, or whatever it will be c...
Alan Johnson | 477 c826 (Link to this contribution) I will give way one last time, and then I shall make some progress.
Alan Johnson | 477 c826 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Dr. Stoate) is right. I am concentrating on primary care bec...
Speaker | 477 c826 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before the Secretary of State replies, may I just remark that the interventions have been get...
Howard Stoate | 477 c826 (Link to this contribution) May I play devil's advocate, and suggest that my right hon. Friend is not going anywhere near far en...
Alan Johnson | 477 c826 (Link to this contribution) I would tell those GPs that this is not the only investment being made in primary care. About half a...
Alan Johnson | 477 c825 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has reminded me why the proposals are so exciting for London. It will be possible to ...
Shona McIsaac | 477 c855 (Link to this contribution) Like my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright), I think that the BMA's ““Save our Sur...
Graham Stuart | 477 c855 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady has been following the debate, she will have heard that patients can register with ...
Shona McIsaac | 477 c855-6 (Link to this contribution) I think that I regret allowing the hon. Gentleman to intervene. He has been talking about people's G...
Mark Simmonds | 477 c856-9 (Link to this contribution) The motion is all about patients and the provision of health care for the maximum benefit of patient...
Ben Bradshaw | 477 c859-62 (Link to this contribution) Our primary care system of family doctors has served this country very well and is the envy of the w...
Tony Wright | 477 c853-4 (Link to this contribution) I wished to speak only because I have been genuinely shocked by aspects of the campaign that has bee...
Neil Turner | 477 c852 (Link to this contribution) One of the problems with this debate is that so many people say that it might not be the answer in t...
John Pugh | 477 c852 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has said much about the new facilities. Can he tell us something about the effect...
Neil Turner | 477 c850-1 (Link to this contribution) I disagree with that analysis, because I do not think that is true. I think that health centres and ...
Greg Mulholland | 477 c852 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman wants to improve his health, it is not too late to register to play in the rug...
Neil Turner | 477 c850 (Link to this contribution) One of the most disappointing things about this debate and the motion is that they are focused entir...
Graham Stuart | 477 c850 (Link to this contribution) Most of the speeches that I have heard today did not attack polyclinics per se and did not say that ...
Norman Lamb | 477 c854 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would agree that we should be developing policy that is based on e...
Tony Wright | 477 c854-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention, as it gives me the opportunity to make my final point, which is...
Lynne Jones | 477 c842-3 (Link to this contribution) Yes. A couple of my constituents recently changed practice. One of them has mental health problems a...
Maria Miller | 477 c843-5 (Link to this contribution) We are two hours into the debate and we have yet to hear anyone speak in support of the Government's...
Graham Stuart | 477 c845 (Link to this contribution) If patients can register with an expensively laid-out new centre, they will take their money away fr...
Norman Lamb | 477 c841 (Link to this contribution) Is not the approach that the hon. Lady is describing precisely what ends up demoralising local healt...
Lynne Jones | 477 c842 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. Obviously, the PCT would not earn brownie points if it failed to go along ...
John Leech | 477 c842 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that there is already competition among GPs? If people do not like their lo...
Maria Miller | 477 c845 (Link to this contribution) That is an excellent point. My constituency also contains rural areas. I have already received lette...
Howard Stoate | 477 c845-8 (Link to this contribution) There is something funny about this debate. I am the only practising GP left in the House of Commons...
Richard Taylor | 477 c848-50 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by declaring that I am a member of the British Medical Association and a fellow of the R...
Alan Johnson | 477 c822 (Link to this contribution) The total cost is estimated at around £150 million, which will be money well spent and a crucial inv...
Elliot Morley | 477 c809 (Link to this contribution) My local primary care trust has announced that we are to have an additional clinic, funded with addi...
Karen Buck | 477 c813 (Link to this contribution) In my PCT, the thinking concerns creating a polyclinic based on a hospital. That would reduce inappr...
Tobias Ellwood | 477 c811 (Link to this contribution) To go back to the first intervention, the people of Crosby may be delighted that there is to be a po...
Neil Turner | 477 c852 (Link to this contribution) Because we have been so under-doctored, and GPs surgeries have been poor in the past, people have us...
Shona McIsaac | 477 c810 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Chris Mullin | 477 c825-6 (Link to this contribution) What would my right hon. Friend say to the GPs from the local medical committee in Sunderland who ca...
Subjects
Clinics Doctors Health services General practitioners Primary care Primary care trusts Patient-professional relationship Health centres
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