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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Thursday, 16 July 2009, in the House of Lords.

Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill

Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill. Lords Committee stage fifth day. Clause 42 agreed. New clause (Amendment 124A) debated and withdrawn. New clause (Amendment 124B) agreed on division (42 votes to 34).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
712 c1324-74 
Session
2008-09
Department
Department for Business, Innovation and Skills
Department for Children, Schools and Families
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1329-32 (Link to this contribution) I support not only the other amendments that are grouped with this one, but also a number of subsequ...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1324 (Link to this contribution) Clause 47: Provision of education for persons subject to youth detention Amendment 113B 113B: Clau...
Show all contributions (95)
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1324-5 (Link to this contribution) We have now come to what we regard as an important part of the Bill where we will debate the clauses...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1326-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, for giving me the opportunity to reassure him and the Prison...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1327 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 114 114: Clause 47, page 29, line 11, at end insert— "( ) sentence planning ensures that ...
Earl of Listowel | 712 c1337-8 (Link to this contribution) I have with me a case history which helps to illustrate the concerns being raised. Recently I attend...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 712 c1335-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly to Amendments 115, 129 and 132, which are in my name and that of the noble Lor...
Baroness Buscombe | 712 c1332-3 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the House because I have not spoken before in any debates on this Bill. But I feel co...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1333-4 (Link to this contribution) The last suggestion made by my noble friend is excellent. In speaking to my amendments in this group...
Lord Elton | 712 c1335 (Link to this contribution) On the question of continuity of education, I am sure that the Committee will find plenty to talk ab...
Lord Elton | 712 c1335 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear that. If we could see and hear that happening, it would be even more encourag...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1344-5 (Link to this contribution) I will be delighted to help the Committee in that way. Coming to Amendments 118 and 136, the Bill in...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1340-2 (Link to this contribution) The amendments in this group cover a number of important areas, but have at their heart a desire to ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 712 c1339 (Link to this contribution) My name is attached to three of these amendments. All of them underline the whole business of specia...
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1343 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in what the Minister says. On 17 November 2008 her colleague Mr Hanson announced tha...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1342-3 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to respond to what has been an important and extremely learned debate. I certainly we...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1353 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it is specified in the Bill how local authorities are to set about securing educ...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1355 (Link to this contribution) I am encouraged by what the noble Baroness said about the voluntary sector. In the letter she kindly...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1356 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her response. I suggest that all the subjects listed have at least an educa...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1355-6 (Link to this contribution) The picture that I have in my mind is that the local authority will ensure that there is appropriate...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1359 (Link to this contribution) Just to clarify, the noble Baroness is talking about the benefits to local authorities in continuity...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1358-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not certain that I shall be able to go into the kind of detail that the noble Lord is looking f...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1356-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 152, which is grouped with this one. Both amendments deal with the t...
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1349 (Link to this contribution) That is the point I was trying to make: there is total lack of clarity about the cost, certainly as ...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1349 (Link to this contribution) I do not have current working figures but I want to make it clear that we are not asking local autho...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1348-9 (Link to this contribution) In the Minister’s compendious reply, for which I am extremely grateful, I missed any mention of fund...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1349 (Link to this contribution) We intend to be absolutely clear about our expectations of local authorities in terms of education f...
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1349 (Link to this contribution) The DCSF may not be funding custody but I understand it is intended that youth custody funding will ...
Lord Elton | 712 c1348 (Link to this contribution) Before the tide of responses begins, I should like to say that, having pressed for quite a long time...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1351-2 (Link to this contribution) Our Amendments 116A and 116B are also probing amendments. We suggest that a statutory minimum of pur...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1351 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 116A 116A: Clause 47, page 29, line 11, at end insert— "(1A) In deciding for the purposes...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1350 (Link to this contribution) I sincerely thank the Minister for her full and considered reply to what has been a marathon session...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1350 (Link to this contribution) I entirely understand that the noble Baroness may not be able to give detailed figures now, but can ...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1350 (Link to this contribution) I have not looked at the details of that proposal and therefore I am not sure that I can answer the ...
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1370-1 (Link to this contribution) I have put my name to this amendment because I think that it deals with a fundamental point. It also...
Lord Elton | 712 c1371 (Link to this contribution) I agree very much with the noble Lord except in one thing. I do not think that you can ever tell how...
Lord Addington | 712 c1371 (Link to this contribution) I have one basic question. The noble Baroness said that there would be an assessment coming through....
Lord Elton | 712 c1366 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has assumed that the management will be saying the same in both halves of the senten...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 712 c1366-8 (Link to this contribution) I fully agree that there should be a clear focus on literacy and numeracy skills in education provis...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1368 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord let me know later, if not now, who the relevant parties and interested groups wi...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1368-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, La...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1369 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 124B 124B: After Clause 47, insert the following new Clause— "Basic reading assessment fo...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 712 c1365 (Link to this contribution) I warmly support these amendments. The exact timing of the courses may not be entirely sensible. On ...
Lord Elton | 712 c1364 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome my noble friend’s initiative and the support that noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley,...
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1363 (Link to this contribution) Again, I put my name to this amendment, particularly because of the use of the word "modular". I ver...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1360 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 124A 124A: After Clause 47, insert the following new Clause— "Provision of educational co...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 712 c1372-3 (Link to this contribution) I take the point. As I said in my previous contribution and indeed gave the statistics, young people...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1373-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. The contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham...
Lord Addington | 712 c1372 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that holding the nose would have been better.
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 712 c1372 (Link to this contribution) I very much support the amendment for two reasons. First, it gives a clear point when we can assess ...
Earl of Listowel | 712 c1371 (Link to this contribution) The amendment prompts me to ask whether the Minister can give some information of the state of libra...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1325-6 (Link to this contribution) We have considerable sympathy with the amendment. It would, of course, be highly desirable for young...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1327 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, for expressing her sympathy for the amendment, and I thank ...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1327-9 (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 114, I shall also speak to Amendments 119 and 120 in the group. As we have hear...
Lord Addington | 712 c1338-9 (Link to this contribution) In intervening in the general debate on these amendments, my eye has been particularly drawn to Amen...
Lord McIntosh of Haringey | 712 c1335 (Link to this contribution) Good Governments do that all the time. This Government have been bringing in Ministers from other de...
Lord Elton | 712 c1335 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear that; it relieves me of a great burden and puts one on the noble Baroness.
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1335 (Link to this contribution) As a point of information, the DCSF has a dual key with the MoJ for the Youth Justice Board. We work...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1344 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way. I wonder whether she could write to the Com...
Lord Elton | 712 c1342 (Link to this contribution) I interrupt my noble friend to observe that those words are now in the Bill, in Clause 40(8): ""But ...
Baroness Walmsley | 712 c1340 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister winds up this very interesting debate, I shall just ask her a few questions abou...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1343-4 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to write to the Committee with the figures that I have used. The point I am trying to mak...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1342 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. This somewhat undermines the good intentions behind the clause, wh...
Baroness Blackstone | 712 c1353-4 (Link to this contribution) I had responsibility as a Minister for prison education when its funding was transferred from the Ho...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1354-5 (Link to this contribution) I welcome these probing amendments and the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, to t...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1356 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 124 124: Clause 47, page 30, line 13, at end insert— "( ) In performing the duty imposed ...
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1352-3 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment, and I am interested that the figure of 30 hours should be mentioned. The f...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1359 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord asking what are the benefits?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1359 (Link to this contribution) I would have to get exact advice, but my expectation is that it would be very difficult for local au...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1359-60 (Link to this contribution) The benefit to the local authority is having an experienced contractor deliver its educational dutie...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1358 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, has tabled two important amendments. The changes imposed by the Bil...
Lord Ramsbotham | 712 c1357 (Link to this contribution) I have put my name to Amendment 124 and I support Amendment 152. I sound another caveat. The noble ...
Lord Elton | 712 c1347 (Link to this contribution) I understand all the caveats that the noble Baroness is giving, and welcome her undertakings. Is thi...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1347-8 (Link to this contribution) I will just take some inspiration. Yes, we can be clear that that will find its way into the guidanc...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1350-1 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, will be aware, the academy which we on these Benches are supporting i...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1350 (Link to this contribution) Liberal Democrats supporting academies must be a first.
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1350 (Link to this contribution) I was given some advice just now which says that there are no current plans for DCSF to fund wider c...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 712 c1349-50 (Link to this contribution) I ask for a little indulgence. I understood from the Minister that the department was giving a lot o...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1369-70 (Link to this contribution) We have tabled Amendment 124B in order to address the pressing issue of the enormous number of child...
Baroness Blackstone | 712 c1364-5 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that this is a probing amendment, but I want to pick up on what the noble Lord, Lord Elt...
Earl of Listowel | 712 c1363-4 (Link to this contribution) I warmly support what the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, is driving at. I remember visiting Rainsbrook ...
Lord Lucas | 712 c1365-6 (Link to this contribution) I thoroughly support the amendment. It gives me two particular moments of pleasure—little rays of su...
Baroness Garden of Frognal | 712 c1360 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her reply. I am still not entirely clear on the ring-fencing. She assured u...
Baroness Walmsley | 712 c1362-3 (Link to this contribution) From these Benches we think that there is a great deal to be said for the amendment of the noble Lor...
Lord De Mauley | 712 c1360-2 (Link to this contribution) We are already well into a series of debates this afternoon about young offender education. Our amen...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 712 c1372 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, for introducing another interesting area for exploration. Th...
Baroness Walmsley | 712 c1372 (Link to this contribution) It strikes me that we have a meeting of minds here—that the Committee believes that it is a good ide...
Lord Addington | 712 c1345 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that very encouraging answer. I suggest that it might be appropriate if we ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 712 c1353 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendments. It seems to me that 30 hours is an absolute minimum for these young ...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 712 c1353 (Link to this contribution) We have a great deal of sympathy with the amendments. Amendment 116A could be taken as being a bit p...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 712 c1345-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that helpful recommendation; I shall take it back to the department and e...
Lord Elton | 712 c1359 (Link to this contribution) I may have slipped in concentration, but I am not clear therefore what the benefits are that the nob...
Subjects
Apprentices Education Standards Special educational needs Training Young offenders Speech and language therapy Literacy Basic skills Young offender institutions
Legislation
Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill 2008-09
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk