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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 13 January 2010, in the House of Lords.

Bribery Bill [HL]

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
716 c83-118GC 
Session
2009-10
Department
Ministry of Justice
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c88GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with what has been said. I have two short questions. First, if this was necessary,...
Lord Geddes | 716 c83GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is striking 3.45 pm and the monitor says that it is 3.45 pm. As is usual on these occas...
Show all contributions (86)
Lord Henley | 716 c95-6GC (Link to this contribution) I will accept the advice of the Minister but I will remind him that a large number of those who have...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c116GC (Link to this contribution) It does not say that in the Bill at all. He is not a member of the security services or any other ag...
Baroness Whitaker | 716 c114-5GC (Link to this contribution) My recollection is that the first Joint Committee on the draft Corruption Bill threw out the authori...
Lord Bach | 716 c116GC (Link to this contribution) We have thought about this issue. Our view is that the co-accused standing in the dock, the person w...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c108GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is a further curiosity about paragraph (c) in that it is a defence only if the membe...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c107-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I move Amendment 26 and speak to Amendments 28 and 30, which are in my name and that of my...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c89GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister say whether in the past 100 years there have been investigations or proceedings bro...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 716 c87GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like others, I am struck by the difference between the draft Bill and the Bill now before ...
Lord Henley | 716 c84GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord for that explanation. My Amendments 21 and 32 are designed to r...
Lord Pannick | 716 c86GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support these amendments and agree with the noble Lords, Lord Henley and Lord Goodhart. ...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 716 c86-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, following on what has just been said by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and others, this is ...
Lord Bach | 716 c95GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord misunderstands me completely.
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 716 c94GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is extremely generous in giving way and he has been very fair, as he has always been....
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 716 c94GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister mentioned the word "authorisation" but said nothing about ministerial authorisation, a ...
Lord Pannick | 716 c91GC (Link to this contribution) May I test the Minister’s patience? As I understand what he is saying, he is telling the Committee t...
Lord Bach | 716 c90GC (Link to this contribution) This example will be hypothetical. An advantage given to an employee of the company in order to indu...
Lord Bach | 716 c89-90GC (Link to this contribution) There is nothing secret about that. A lot of work had gone on behind the scenes to work out clauses ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c116GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am surprised that the person standing in the dock has to prove that his conduct in recei...
Lord Bach | 716 c115GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether there is some confusion between the 2003 Joint Committee, which thought that the au...
Lord Bach | 716 c115GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful. I cannot argue with those who served on the Committee. I can refer only to the first ...
Lord Bach | 716 c112-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before I try to answer the Motion that the clause not stand part, I thank all noble Lords ...
Lord Henley | 716 c112GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may intervene briefly. We can put it simply if we say that during the course of ...
Lord Bach | 716 c115-6GC (Link to this contribution) That is the one to which my noble friend Lady Whitaker referred whereas I am looking at the Joint Co...
Lord Pannick | 716 c112GC (Link to this contribution) I agree respectfully with the noble and learned Lord that insofar as there is a need for any of thes...
Lord Bach | 716 c108GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord pursues this point, perhaps he will look at the definitions in Clause 6. He is...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c107GC (Link to this contribution) The Joint Committee said that it, ""heard no persuasive evidence of a need for the domestic intellig...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c107GC (Link to this contribution) 26: Clause 12, page 8, line 10, leave out paragraph (c)
Lord Goodhart | 716 c96GC (Link to this contribution) 22: Clause 12, page 8, line 8, leave out "any function of" and insert "functions relating to nationa...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 716 c99GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will look at Amendment 27 in the group. Does the Minister really know how this works? Le...
Lord Pannick | 716 c99GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, will comment on Amendment 27 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Henley. It raises...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c100GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am glad that the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, spoke first, because what I shall say is...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, once again we have had an interesting debate in which there has been no support for the Go...
Lord Bach | 716 c89GC (Link to this contribution) Not money for information in the sense that the noble Lord means, but I was just going on to say tha...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 716 c87-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree. I do not want to delay more than I hope is necessary the Minister’s reply to thes...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 716 c88GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly because almost everything has been said. I support these amendments certainly ...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c84-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford and I have put our names to Amendment 21. In doing...
Lord Henley | 716 c83-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 21 is also in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Goodhart and Lord Thomas of Gre...
Lord Henley | 716 c83GC (Link to this contribution) 21: Clause 12, page 8, line 6, leave out paragraph (a)
Lord Bach | 716 c95GC (Link to this contribution) At this juncture in the Parliament, the noble Lord should be careful about having too much fun at ou...
Lord Henley | 716 c96GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for amending his words and thus, as it were, deleting "hope" from his previou...
Lord Bach | 716 c92-4GC (Link to this contribution) I have heard the strong views of the Committee; of course we will think again. That is why we have C...
Lord Bach | 716 c94GC (Link to this contribution) There is no doubt that the clause is widely drafted. The Constitution Committee had it right when it...
Lord Henley | 716 c94-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister asked me what I intend to do with the amendment. He knows the answer because,...
Lord Bach | 716 c91-2GC (Link to this contribution) I have given the example. Regarding information, which might be information about a crime on the par...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c91GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether I could give a concrete example from my experience of a few years ago. I think it w...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c89GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister explain why, if this matter is so obvious, it did not appear in the Government’s or...
Lord Bach | 716 c90-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am not saying, as the noble Viscount suggested I was, that it would necessarily mean that there wa...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c116GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister talked about there being a mechanism in the Bill that would prevent there being a crimi...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c111GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder whether the idea that nods should be outlawed is necessarily all that bad in the ...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c110GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a very short debate, unlike our previous ones. I am not sure that it has enlightened m...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c110-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have given notice of my intention to oppose the clause. I shall not go over all the area...
Lord Pannick | 716 c109GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell us whether there are any examples in recent years of prosecution authorities b...
Lord Bach | 716 c109GC (Link to this contribution) I am not in a position to answer the noble Lord. There may or may not be examples, but I do not thin...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c108GC (Link to this contribution) What is "business"? Let us suppose, for example, that an Army officer wants to obtain something for ...
Lord Bach | 716 c109GC (Link to this contribution) The question that the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, is really asking is why a provision for the Armed F...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c107GC (Link to this contribution) Paragraph 13 of the Select Committee’s report states: ""Even in the event that compelling evidence i...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c106GC (Link to this contribution) It goes on to say: ""For the defence in clause 12(1)(b) such authorisation should be the responsibil...
Lord Bach | 716 c106GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord; that is what the 2003 document says. I am referring to the Constitution...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c106-7GC (Link to this contribution) It certainly does not make that clear. I have no doubt that the Joint Committee was acting on the as...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c96-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 22 has been tabled in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresfor...
Lord Henley | 716 c97-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I also have amendments in this group. I shall speak to Amendments 23, 24, 25, 27 and 31, w...
Lord Bach | 716 c100-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these amendments are all concerned with the Clause 12 defence as it applies to the functio...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c104-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, how does the Minister anticipate that the system he is advocating in the Bill will operate...
Lord Bach | 716 c106GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry for interrupting the noble Lord, but the reason why I have made the argument about an aut...
Lord Bach | 716 c88-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these amendments concern Clause 12, which provides a defence for law enforcement agencies,...
Lord Goodhart | 716 c84GC (Link to this contribution) Just to save time, perhaps I could point out that our Amendments 29 and 33 are purely consequential,...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c95GC (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister warning the noble Lord, Lord Henley, on the premise that he may be in the Minister’s...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 716 c92GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but this is not at all realistic. The employer has nothing to d...
Lord Bach | 716 c91GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is very clear about that. What if the inquiry that the police officer was making was ...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 716 c90GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may pick up on the Minister’s statement that it might be necessary for agencies to bribe s...
Viscount Colville of Culross | 716 c90GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a very obscure. The Minister is talking about what is called, in the Regulation of...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c117-8GC (Link to this contribution) Because the bribery might be made to the police officer for the performance of his functions. I do n...
Lord Bach | 716 c116GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord would be good enough to look at Clause 12(1), it is a defence for a person charged...
Lord Bach | 716 c117GC (Link to this contribution) Why, in that case, would Section 2 be mentioned at all?
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 716 c115GC (Link to this contribution) The passage the noble Lord has just read out shows that the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, is correc...
Lord Pannick | 716 c107GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord accept from me, as the only member of the Constitution Committee here today, tha...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 716 c98GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am well aware that the noble Lords, Lord Thomas of Gresford and Lord Goodhart, take the ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 716 c98GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the use of the expression, ""proper exercise of any function"," may well introduce some f...
Baroness Whitaker | 716 c99-100GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend himself said that Clause 12 casts the net too widely. The net is very over...
Lord Bach | 716 c105GC (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord makes a good point. We should not forget that prosecutorial discretion al...
Subjects
Disclosure of information Armed forces Corruption Intelligence services GCHQ National security Police Public interest Public service MI6 MI5 Bribery
Legislation
Bribery Bill (HL) 2009-10
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk