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Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 16 November 2010, in the House of Commons.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Committee stage first day. Clause 1 (Polling Days for Parliamentary General Elections), discussed with new clause 4 (Devolved Legislature Elections) and new clause 5 ((Varying of Elections by the National Assembly for Wales), debated and agreed to. Committee to sit again tomorrow.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
518 c770-856 
Session
2010-12
Department
Deputy Prime Minister
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c838 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Gentleman that ““disingenuous”” is not necessarily a parliamentary word...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c773 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that point. I was remiss not to mention it.
Show all contributions (322)
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c772 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. For every legislature where the Executive is decided ...
Andrew Turner | 518 c772 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that France has a different length, as does Australia? What is so spe...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c772-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to address those points later in my speech. I think that I addressed some of them in my ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c773 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talks about the merits of coalition Government, but in these islands there is a Gover...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c770 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 11, page 1, line 5, leave out '7 May 2015' and insert '1 May 2014'.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c770 (Link to this contribution) With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c771-2 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak also to amendments 12 and 13 in my name and those of my hon. Friend the Member for N...
Tristram Hunt | 518 c772 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, internationally, the four-year term is pretty much the norm, parti...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c799 (Link to this contribution) None, but perhaps people will not vote for a candidate because he is too old and might not last a fu...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c799 (Link to this contribution) And does not the Front Bench demonstrate the point that the hon. Gentleman is making? There is not o...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c799 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point from my hon. Friend. It is a shame that even the Deputy Leader of the House has ...
Jim Shannon | 518 c799-800 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has clearly outlined the need for the democratic process to operate over a three,...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c798 (Link to this contribution) And what happens now as Governments sit in power for up to five years? They tremble at what the Dail...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 518 c799 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is always entertaining, and I pay tribute to the fact that on the day the Labour ...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c800 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely. That is the best indication that this is a constitutional fix, a coalition deal,...
Andrew Percy | 518 c800 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a short contribution. I have a great deal of sympathy with the amendment tabled by the ...
Anne McGuire | 518 c800 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman repudiates that intention, why was there no attempt to reach a cross-party con...
Andrew Percy | 518 c800-1 (Link to this contribution) I am just a lowly Back Bencher. I cannot answer that question, but the right hon. Lady has made her ...
Alec Shelbrooke | 518 c796 (Link to this contribution) That is all very well and good, but the hon. Gentleman is overlooking the fact that, for the first t...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c796 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I have to disagree. There is no expectation that a Parliament should run other than...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c796 (Link to this contribution) It says up to five years, and the Government are seeking to make five years the compulsory length of...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c796 (Link to this contribution) And trains could run on time, but they do not always. If the hon. Lady had been here for the speech ...
Baroness Morgan of Cotes | 518 c798 (Link to this contribution) It is very entertaining to hear about the hon. Gentleman's campaigning techniques and fixed grin, bu...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c797-8 (Link to this contribution) The US House of Representatives, which is the equivalent to our House, has a two-year term, which is...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c796-7 (Link to this contribution) I have taken enough interventions for the time being. I want to make a few points of my own instead ...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c795 (Link to this contribution) Falling behind in the polls, implementing unpopular measures, failing and visibly disagreeing with e...
Neil Carmichael | 518 c795 (Link to this contribution) May I just say that this debate has nothing to do with changing the Prime Minister during the five y...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c795 (Link to this contribution) I see another detour on the route map so I shall not go down that road. I had my own proposals once ...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c795 (Link to this contribution) I just said that it would have been sensible had the Labour Government gone to the country in 2007—n...
Jonathan Reynolds | 518 c795 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making some very good points about Governments hanging on for five years, but is n...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c795-6 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely, but that argument relates to amendment 11, which seeks four-year terms, whereas ...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c796 (Link to this contribution) Ah, perhaps we will hear an explanation.
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c796 (Link to this contribution) May I suggest that it comes from the current law that a Parliament can run for five years?
Alec Shelbrooke | 518 c794 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman refers to a Government reduced to the state that this Government are in. They are...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c794 (Link to this contribution) I am baffled—I mentioned Governments in a mess and a Government Member stands up to tell me that the...
Alec Shelbrooke | 518 c794 (Link to this contribution) On the specific point that it is always a failing Government who go the five years and cling to powe...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c794 (Link to this contribution) As an ex-academic, I find that the best way of alienating the House is to quote other academics, so ...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c794 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely. I am sorry to have interrupted my hon. Friend's intervention with the answer to th...
Tristram Hunt | 518 c794 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. The hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd...
Ian Lucas | 518 c793 (Link to this contribution) That is the key issue for the Liberal Democrats and the Tories. They do not care whether it is a fix...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c793 (Link to this contribution) The second Attlee Government lasted from 1950 to 1951. However, that was an attempt to detour me and...
Ian Lucas | 518 c793 (Link to this contribution) Is not the important point about this Bill the fact that it is a five-year Parliament Bill?
William Cash | 518 c790 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend appreciate that many of us may well be cautious, because although we are concent...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c790 (Link to this contribution) The proposal suits the Government for their own purposes, and that is why the nation at large is cau...
Neil Carmichael | 518 c790 (Link to this contribution) I note my hon. Friend's observations about America. Of course, its terms really are fixed: the Senat...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c790 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is, of course, right. This is a hugely important constitutional Bill and we should no...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c790 (Link to this contribution) Order. Interventions are supposed to be brief. I think that Mr Shepherd has got the gist of the poin...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c791 (Link to this contribution) I make the gentlest of suggestions to my hon. Friend that he misleads himself. I provided the quote ...
Andrew Bridgen | 518 c791 (Link to this contribution) This is a most intriguing debate and my hon. Friend speaks with great passion and impartiality about...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c791 (Link to this contribution) But the options are closing. This measure is part of a constitutional package. We passed a piece of ...
Pete Wishart | 518 c791 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talks of Asquith, but may I bring him up to date with perhaps a less illustrious ...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c791-2 (Link to this contribution) We all draw our own conclusions, and I suggested something. What we are clear about is that the Depu...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c792 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to amendments 7 and 8, which stand in my name and ask for triennial Parliaments. Tha...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c792 (Link to this contribution) Again, that was because the then Government were hanging on, as Macmillan was replaced by Sir Alec D...
Neil Carmichael | 518 c792 (Link to this contribution) At least one manifesto that has come to my mind was entitled ““The Next Five Years””; I believe it r...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c792 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman bides his time a little, I shall deal with exactly that point. He is making th...
Andrew Bridgen | 518 c792 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman just remind the House how long the previous Parliament ran for?
Neil Carmichael | 518 c793 (Link to this contribution) How bad does the hon. Gentleman think the Attlee Government were from 1945 to 1950?
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c792-3 (Link to this contribution) As I listen to the hon. Gentleman, I wonder whether cause and effect are a bit mixed up. One complai...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c793 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point. The argument for fixed terms used to be that Governments would manipulate the e...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c793 (Link to this contribution) Order. First, it is not necessary for the hon. Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) to wave—he simply...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c785 (Link to this contribution) In our view, the decision should be made at the appropriate level. There are four-year electoral te...
Jim Shannon | 518 c785 (Link to this contribution) If the Northern Ireland Assembly were to say that it wanted its elections to run alongside the Westm...
Mark Field | 518 c787 (Link to this contribution) In fact, there have been 17 elections since 1945, and the average length of a Government has been th...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c787 (Link to this contribution) There is, of course, no question about that in my mind. Governments will try to engineer an election...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c787 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said that Asquith's Bill did not receive pre-legislative scrutiny. Does he agree ...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c785-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall support all those amendments that propose a four-year fixed-term Parliament, and in so doing...
Mark Tami | 518 c786 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman hit the nail on the head when he said that the Bill was really all about the curr...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c786 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his support. I believe that that will be the wider judgment. What was...
Mark Field | 518 c786 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will know that I share many of his fears about the Bill, along with the other constit...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c788 (Link to this contribution) I have lost my place as a result of the hon. Gentleman's intervention, so let me recap what Professo...
Tristram Hunt | 518 c788 (Link to this contribution) Professor Blackburn's speech is particularly interesting, because he goes on to say—[Interruption.] ...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c787-8 (Link to this contribution) There is a simple amendment which the hon. Gentleman did not table, and which was not discussed in t...
Mark Tami | 518 c790 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that neither Front-Bench team argued the case? I cannot recall anybody...
Mark Field | 518 c789-90 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend not appreciate that if we are to have a fixed-term for this Parliament, five yea...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c790 (Link to this contribution) I was elected under the law as it then stood, and I expected that the length of term in place at the...
Anne McGuire | 518 c788 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the hon. Gentleman. I can see from his face that he is not particularly...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c789 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry if that is the case. I am speaking in support of those amendments that call for a four-ye...
Chris Bryant | 518 c788 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the point made in the quotation that the hon. Gentleman has read out; indeed, I was goi...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c788 (Link to this contribution) What a trivial point, but I thought I had said the 19th century. I stand corrected if I did not, and...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c780 (Link to this contribution) I can answer the hon. Gentleman's point simply: hardly any. Returning to the point about candidates...
Nicholas Dakin | 518 c780 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a lot of pertinent points about the difficulties in Wales in particular. Ca...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c779 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman highlights the potential for organisational chaos in the 2015 elections. I am con...
Ian Murray | 518 c779 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is generous in giving way to me again. If the Scottish parliamentary and UK elect...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c779 (Link to this contribution) I fully agree with my hon. Friend. That is the intention of some of our proposals and I am grateful ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c779 (Link to this contribution) Further to the point made by the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), surely the answer to ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c780 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, my fears might come to nothing, but I see no reason why democracy should be held hostage ...
Mark Field | 518 c779-80 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes the reasonable point that there is a risk of confusion, but will he cast hi...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c780 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the potential for organisational chaos in 2015 and...
Mark Tami | 518 c780 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has not mentioned one problem with holding different elections on the same day. M...
Pete Wishart | 518 c780-1 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend is looking forward, like I am, with great anticipation to finding out ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c782-5 (Link to this contribution) That would certainly further the respect agenda that we have heard so much about from the UK Governm...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c781 (Link to this contribution) I made it clear earlier that my preference is for four years and, as the hon. Member for Rhondda has...
Alan Reid | 518 c781 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman does not seem to be arguing that the right length of time for this Parliament is ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c781 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important contribution. Obviously, if there had been changes since Second Re...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c782 (Link to this contribution) Would it not be a great sign of maturity from the Government if they could accept new clause 4 and a...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c781 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that correction. On Second Reading, the Deputy Prime Minister appear...
Chris Bryant | 518 c781 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) is being a little unfair to the Libera...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c781 (Link to this contribution) Once again, my hon. Friend makes an important point.
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c776 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point, but I was about to explain some of the complexities involv...
Alan Reid | 518 c775 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman cannot be allowed to get away with saying that all the spoilt ballot papers were ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c776 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a more informed contribution than I do, but I was just getting to the Gould rep...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c776 (Link to this contribution) Although it is true that the main problem at the last Scottish election was the design of the ballot...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c774-5 (Link to this contribution) I think that the debate is about whether there is to be five years or four years between elections. ...
Louise Mensch | 518 c774 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister currently has the right to extend this Parliament to 2015 if...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c775 (Link to this contribution) Is not that point all the more serious with a UK general election, a Scottish election and a Welsh e...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c773-4 (Link to this contribution) We will have that debate later. A five-year Parliament was not in either governing parties' manifes...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c779 (Link to this contribution) I was coming to exactly that point. Electors will have three ballot papers: one for the Westminster ...
Chris Bryant | 518 c779 (Link to this contribution) I respect Lewis Baston enormously, but he is slightly wrong: there would be three different sets of ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c778-9 (Link to this contribution) These changes will have a clear impact as electors find themselves not merely with the added burden ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c778 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are moving on to Bills that have already passed through the House. Please can we focus on ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c778 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady knows that I am in full agreement with her. It was very important that those iss...
Ann Clwyd | 518 c778 (Link to this contribution) Despite the fact that the majority of Welsh MPs asked for a debate in the Welsh Grand Committee, whi...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c777-8 (Link to this contribution) Once again, my hon. Friend makes my point for me. What is important in this context is that the BBC ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c777 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman was as appalled as I was by a ““Question Time”” programme about ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c776-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point, and that seems to me a recipe for disaster. The words in th...
Ian Murray | 518 c776 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making some incredibly powerful arguments. Would he like to comment on the fac...
Thomas Docherty | 518 c824 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point, and I apologise for not having touched on it. He...
Stephen Pound | 518 c824-5 (Link to this contribution) We are certainly being educated here tonight. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Philadelphia conven...
Thomas Docherty | 518 c825-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that excellent point. When I look at those on the Governm...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c826-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship in this debate, Miss Begg. I want to focus o...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c827 (Link to this contribution) I simply must intervene to defend the honour of the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my right ...
Anne McGuire | 518 c823 (Link to this contribution) I may be wrong, but I think that was four years, not five years.
Anne McGuire | 518 c823 (Link to this contribution) Trust the Liberals to get involved in semantics. Everyone else knew what I was talking about. I sug...
Thomas Docherty | 518 c823-4 (Link to this contribution) I welcome you to the Chair, Miss Begg. As I sat here this afternoon and this evening, I saw my hon. ...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c824 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not forget one of the very important constituent parts of that w...
Anne McGuire | 518 c821-2 (Link to this contribution) I thoroughly agree with my hon. Friend. We now have a different kind of Government. Had the numbers ...
Louise Mensch | 518 c822 (Link to this contribution) Opposition Members return again and again to the same inexplicable argument. Will the right hon. Lad...
Anne McGuire | 518 c820-1 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for calling me, Miss Begg. It is a great pleasure to see you in your place today. I congr...
Graham Stringer | 518 c821 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making a powerful case for shorter periods between general elections, but wh...
Anne McGuire | 518 c822-3 (Link to this contribution) There is a distinct difference between the flexibility in the constitution now, and a law that says ...
Chris Bryant | 518 c819-20 (Link to this contribution) I think I must have wandered over to the Government Benches and left my notes for my speech there, b...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c820 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman cannot see that, but I have said that I can see it. It is a per...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c819 (Link to this contribution) It does not say that. It says: ““One day the Don't knows will get in, and then where will we be?”” [...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c832-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady seems to think that they did get the best bits from everyone, but that makes it clear ...
Stephen Pound | 518 c833 (Link to this contribution) It is a delight and pleasure to serve under you, Miss Begg. This evening has been an extraordinarily...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 518 c831 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Lady therefore saying that her party does not accept that a coalition of two parties is ...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c831 (Link to this contribution) Coming from Scotland and having seen both coalitions and minority Governments in operation, I am ver...
Nicholas Dakin | 518 c831-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an eloquent and forceful argument, drawing on the arguments that we have he...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c832 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, with which I wholly agree. Ordinary electors thought t...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c830 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my right hon. Friend. Yet again, that is another aspect of a situation that we are crea...
Thomas Docherty | 518 c830 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentions the future. Has she, like me, worked out that if we have a second five-year ...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c830-1 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that information, because it adds to the important case that we are prese...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c830 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that information, and I do not think that Government Members appreciate t...
Anne McGuire | 518 c830 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful argument on the practical issues. Has she also had time to consi...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c829 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree. The problem is not to do with people taking different positions; it is to do wit...
Chris Bryant | 518 c829 (Link to this contribution) Is the point not that elections to the Assemblies of Wales and Northern Ireland and to the Parliamen...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c829 (Link to this contribution) I was not suggesting that it is either confusing in general terms or wrong that parties in different...
Thomas Docherty | 518 c829 (Link to this contribution) For the benefit of those Lib Dems who are only arriving now, so very late to the debate, may I ask m...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c829 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. That is another illustration of where the difficulty lies. It is not that people a...
Martin Horwood | 518 c829 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised that the hon. Lady thinks this will cause confusion since Labour seemed to manage suc...
Sheila Gilmore | 518 c827-8 (Link to this contribution) I accept the hon. Lady's point that the Minister cannot take part in the debate, but I have not obse...
Anne McGuire | 518 c828 (Link to this contribution) In a radio programme that I heard on Friday, a leading member of the Liberal Democrat party in the S...
Thomas Docherty | 518 c818 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept, therefore, that the only other Parliament in the United Kingdom has a fou...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c818 (Link to this contribution) No I did not, but I would argue with the hon. Gentleman that, if he seeks consistency, which would n...
Adrian Sanders | 518 c818 (Link to this contribution) Does not much of local government elect not every four years, but by thirds every year, so the argum...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c818 (Link to this contribution) I have answered the point about local authorities. We are not a local authority; we are the Parliame...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c819 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that I gave way to my hon. Friend, because he is absolutely correct. The argument is total...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c818 (Link to this contribution) Because it takes a long time to turn the economy round. We are looking now at the horrific mess that...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c818 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman can wave it away, but he cannot change the fact that our country's economic situa...
Chris Bryant | 518 c809 (Link to this contribution) Of course. The hon. Gentleman is very peripatetic this evening.
Chris Bryant | 518 c809 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is, in effect, making an argument against the whole of the Bill, because he is ba...
William Cash | 518 c809 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman might take on board the fact that the systems of all the other c...
Chris Bryant | 518 c811 (Link to this contribution) It is great to have another new entrant to the debate.
Jo Swinson | 518 c811 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman. Does he accept that the situation he describes is not solely a result of...
Andrew Percy | 518 c809 (Link to this contribution) As interesting as the examples from Europe are, does the hon. Gentleman not agree that the countries...
Chris Bryant | 518 c809-10 (Link to this contribution) I will come on to them, and indeed they add to my argument, but I just wish to finish with France, f...
Alec Shelbrooke | 518 c810 (Link to this contribution) I say again to the hon. Gentleman that this Parliament will still have the power to have an election...
Chris Bryant | 518 c810-1 (Link to this contribution) Unless the hon. Gentleman is going to support us on amendments to clause 2—I look forward to his arg...
Louise Mensch | 518 c812 (Link to this contribution) Although I respect the hon. Gentleman's ecclesiastical background, I cannot resist asking him why it...
Chris Bryant | 518 c812 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. When that point was made earlier in the debate some people s...
Stewart Hosie | 518 c811-2 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether we can get down to the brass tacks of this. In 2007, some 140,000 ballots in Scotla...
Chris Bryant | 518 c811 (Link to this contribution) No, no, no, the hon. Lady is wrong. She has a much easier way to solve all this—she can vote with us...
Chris Bryant | 518 c816 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady referred to the evidence given by Professor Hazell, so I am sure that she would also w...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c816 (Link to this contribution) I am glad the hon. Gentleman raises that and grateful to him. I very well remember 16 May 2008 —I ha...
Chris Bryant | 518 c815 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes an extremely important point. It will be difficult for people to know on what ba...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c815-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The hon. Gentleman and I disagree profusely on the boundary commission issues that are curre...
Chris Bryant | 518 c812-4 (Link to this contribution) Both days provide a specific role for the monarch. The point that I am trying to make is that becaus...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c814-5 (Link to this contribution) I, too, welcome you to the Chair, Miss Begg. In the unavoidable absence of the hon. Member for Nott...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 518 c816 (Link to this contribution) You should still doubt their motives!
Jonathan Reynolds | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not recognise that the normal practice has been four-year terms? In fact, the ave...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c816-7 (Link to this contribution) I am consistent on that point as in all other aspects of my political philosophy. In fact, the debat...
Chris Bryant | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is talking about what is normal. I venture to say that it has not been normal in the B...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) No. With respect, the hon. Gentleman is completely wrong. The Bill is not about extending Parliament...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) I have just explained why. I would add that 1832 is not relevant, but 1911 is. We are looking at the...
Gavin Williamson | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend is very familiar with these figures, but 10 of the past 17 Parliaments...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend very much for those statistics. He is absolutely correct, and talking about a...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) On UK norms, is it not true that where institutions are fixed, whether in Wales, Scotland, or Northe...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 518 c817 (Link to this contribution) The norm for district, county and parish councils is four years, but they are not Parliament. We are...
Graham Stringer | 518 c802 (Link to this contribution) Are not comparisons with the Congressional elections inappropriate, because Congressmen, by and larg...
Andrew Percy | 518 c802 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the American Senator term is that a third of the Senate is elected every two years,...
Chris Bryant | 518 c802-3 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) on advancing his a...
Andrew Percy | 518 c802 (Link to this contribution) I was involved in that in New Jersey in 2000. Such matters were determined on a state-by-state basis...
Alec Shelbrooke | 518 c801 (Link to this contribution) On my hon. Friend's point about Governments campaigning in the last year, one of the things that I f...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 518 c801-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend refers to the American political system and reiterates my earlier point, but is it no...
Andrew Percy | 518 c801 (Link to this contribution) I hope that politicians on all sides take notice of their electorate at all times. The problem with ...
Chris Bryant | 518 c803-4 (Link to this contribution) I will come on to why I think five years is an inappropriate length of time. However, I am grateful ...
Neil Carmichael | 518 c803 (Link to this contribution) Surely those points ram home the argument that five years is a good spell, because the hon. Gentlema...
Alec Shelbrooke | 518 c804 (Link to this contribution) First, will the hon. Gentleman confirm that there is no reason right now why this Parliament will no...
Alec Shelbrooke | 518 c805 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, in his outrage, is almost saying that we are attempting to increase the length o...
Chris Bryant | 518 c805 (Link to this contribution) That is right, but that is a point in relation to clause 2 and at the moment we are dealing with cla...
William Cash | 518 c804-5 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that, really, this is not a fixed-term Parliament Bill at all? I mean...
Chris Bryant | 518 c804 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course. The hon. Lady is right in the sense that constituents will not have to worry about t...
Andrea Leadsom | 518 c804 (Link to this contribution) I agree that constituents reach the point at which they feel that the Government need to change, but...
Chris Bryant | 518 c804 (Link to this contribution) Those were the days, eh? When high-mindedness ruled. The point is surely that it should not be with...
Chris Bryant | 518 c804 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I was just about to come on to the point that I wholeheartedly agree with fixed-term Parliament...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 518 c806 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being very generous in giving way, and he is making an engaging argument on a ...
Chris Bryant | 518 c805 (Link to this contribution) That is where there is a need for a balancing act, and that is why I do not support a three-year Par...
Chris Bryant | 518 c806 (Link to this contribution) I have to presume, as does the House, that the Government will go through with all the various provi...
Chris Bryant | 518 c806 (Link to this contribution) Of course—it is good to have a new entrant into the debate.
Chris Bryant | 518 c807 (Link to this contribution) In fact, looking through the list, that applies to remarkably few of them. It is absolutely true tha...
Chris Bryant | 518 c807 (Link to this contribution) Since the hon. Lady represents Corby, she should at least be able to pronounce the names of the Scot...
Louise Mensch | 518 c807 (Link to this contribution) It is false to say, as the hon. Gentleman and many of his hon. Friends have said, that the aim of th...
Chris Bryant | 518 c807 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if the hon. Lady has been there and I have not happened to notice her—she usually sits c...
Mark Durkan | 518 c807 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that this is not a fixed-term Parliaments Bill that will entrench anything...
Chris Bryant | 518 c807 (Link to this contribution) Yes, indeed. That would be the ultimate ““Brokeback coalition””, I suppose.
Neil Carmichael | 518 c807-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to talk about the hon. Gentleman's statistics. Looking back at the previous century, we had t...
Anne McGuire | 518 c808 (Link to this contribution) I may have misheard my hon. Friend, but I do not think he included the Parliament of '74 to '79, whi...
Chris Bryant | 518 c808 (Link to this contribution) You are telling me to deal with one Parliament at a time, Ms Primarolo, and I rather agree. I have ...
Lee Scott | 518 c808 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think, by that measure, that the European Parliament should not have five-ye...
Chris Bryant | 518 c808 (Link to this contribution) Funnily enough, of course I can advance an argument that is based on the average length of Parliamen...
William Cash | 518 c809 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Chris Bryant | 518 c809 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for sitting there in his rotund way—[Interruption] I am sorry, o...
Chris Bryant | 518 c808 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. My right hon. Friend makes a very good point; she is right. I think that that Parliament ran...
Lord Harper | 518 c845 (Link to this contribution) I thought that I made it clear that it would be a two-thirds decision for—in the hon. Gentleman's ca...
Lord Harper | 518 c844-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, who has been following the Bill's progress very closely, will know that we have ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c845 (Link to this contribution) I have three points for clarification. Is the Minister guaranteeing that there will be no clash of e...
Lord Harper | 518 c844 (Link to this contribution) There are two issues there. First, we recognise that the existing legal position and structure of po...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c844 (Link to this contribution) In the light of the Minister's concessions this evening, which we welcome, will he hold back Report ...
Lord Harper | 518 c844 (Link to this contribution) As in Scotland and Wales, we want to hold these discussions with all the parties represented in the ...
Mark Durkan | 518 c844 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister indicate whether Ministers might at least be open to hearing a clear statement fro...
Mark Durkan | 518 c844 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for recognising that the position in Northern Ireland is different. In putting ...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c847-8 (Link to this contribution) That is important. It must be the Maesteg blood. The Minister made the Government's case, which was...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c846 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am going to allow Mr Chris Bryant in, but I know that he is going to make a very brief cont...
Chris Bryant | 518 c846-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Mr Hoyle. I want to speak only because the Minister made some announcements in...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c847 (Link to this contribution) Diolch, Mr Hoyle. We have had an interesting and informative debate. I shall quickly run through som...
Lord Harper | 518 c845-6 (Link to this contribution) Let me just finish this point. The Government could not accept amendment 32 as drafted even if we th...
Lord Harper | 518 c846 (Link to this contribution) Let me make some progress. Finally, new clauses 4 and 5 would provide that elections to this House ...
Lord Harper | 518 c842-3 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish setting out this point, because I might be about to deal with any questions that the h...
Chris Bryant | 518 c843 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is obviously making a sensible proposal in that regard, but I presume that such a chang...
Lord Harper | 518 c843 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman on behalf of the Labour party recognises that my proposal is sensi...
Lord Harper | 518 c843 (Link to this contribution) In this Bill, and I hope sooner rather than later.
Lord Harper | 518 c843-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope that it will happen sooner rather than later. The position in Northern Ireland is slightly d...
Lord Harper | 518 c842 (Link to this contribution) No. The hon. Gentleman must not keep giving the Committee misleading arguments. The Bill does not ex...
Lord Harper | 518 c839 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my hon. Friend mentions Baroness Thatcher, who of course was a great Prime Minister a...
Lord Harper | 518 c839 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way to the hon. Gentleman. He has not been here for most of the debate, so he...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c839 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend sets aside the words of Asquith, who predates any shenanigans on the matter, but will...
Lord Harper | 518 c840 (Link to this contribution) I will, because the hon. Gentleman has been here for the debate.
Lord Harper | 518 c840 (Link to this contribution) No, I am terribly sorry, but the hon. Gentleman has not been here for the debate, so I am not going ...
Chris Bryant | 518 c838 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, Miss Begg—I did not mean to suggest that the Minister was misleading the House. I think ...
Mark Durkan | 518 c837 (Link to this contribution) I confess. My hon. Friend makes the point about the number of amendments in this group, and they ai...
Stephen Pound | 518 c837 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, not for the first time and almost certainly not for the last, makes a very powerful ...
Lord Harper | 518 c837-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to speak with you, Miss Begg, in the Chair. A number of Members said that th...
Lord Harper | 518 c838 (Link to this contribution) Let me make a little more progress, and then I will give way. We have heard arguments in favour of ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c838 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is such a strong advocate of five years for a Parliament, would he extend that...
Lord Harper | 518 c838 (Link to this contribution) The problem to which the hon. Gentleman is alluding is the once-in-every-20-years coincidence of dat...
Chris Bryant | 518 c838 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is being extremely disingenuous. He said that the Prime Minister can keep going until 2...
Mark Durkan | 518 c837 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way.
Stephen Pound | 518 c836 (Link to this contribution) Are you sure? I hope that I have expressed tonight a sincere and heartfelt view that, just as every...
Stephen Pound | 518 c836 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's intervention, because mention was made earlier—perhaps too mu...
Lord McLoughlin | 518 c836 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c836 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman when I make my own speech.
Stephen Pound | 518 c835-6 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 11 addresses these points. The reality is that if we had a fixed-term Parliament—I appreci...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c836 (Link to this contribution) The reason we want a fixed-term Parliament, particularly those in minority parties, who are never in...
Stephen Pound | 518 c835 (Link to this contribution) One reason why I support clause 1, page 1, line 13, is not because I am massively enamoured of the j...
Nicholas Dakin | 518 c835 (Link to this contribution) I am following my hon. Friend's argument very carefully, as all hon. Members will be. Is it not true...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c835 (Link to this contribution) The amendments that we are debating relate to clause 1, not clause 2, so I ask the hon. Gentleman to...
Stephen Pound | 518 c835 (Link to this contribution) You are absolutely correct, as in all things, Miss Begg.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c834 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) will have seen from my body language that he...
Stephen Pound | 518 c834 (Link to this contribution) Miss Begg, I am, as ever, attendant to your body language and I am interpreting every flicker of tha...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c834 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions days when the election can take place. Does he agree that the devolved P...
Stephen Pound | 518 c835 (Link to this contribution) Today is Eid al-Adha, and that is an important factor that should be taken into consideration. At th...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 518 c833 (Link to this contribution) Much as I do not want to interrupt the hon. Gentleman's flow, I remind him that we are in Committee ...
Stephen Pound | 518 c833-4 (Link to this contribution) I stand abashed, ashamed and corrected, but, as ever, eager to serve, Miss Begg. I was about to turn...
Chris Bryant | 518 c834 (Link to this contribution) Is not the point, in relation to five-year or four-year fixed-term Parliaments, the one that was mad...
Chris Bryant | 518 c842 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if this is a similar point to the one made by the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (...
Lord Harper | 518 c842 (Link to this contribution) The position at the moment is that two thirds can bring about an early election, and there is no pow...
Lord Harper | 518 c842 (Link to this contribution) That is something that we will be able to discuss when we consult Members in the other places. This ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c842 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for what I feel is the partial acceptance of new clause 4. How drawn is the Minister t...
Lord Harper | 518 c842 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) again, and then I will give...
Tristram Hunt | 518 c840 (Link to this contribution) In some of the speeches that we have heard from the Deputy Prime Minister—I understand that he is gi...
Lord Harper | 518 c840 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is quite right about the point that the Chartists made, but I do not happen to th...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c841 (Link to this contribution) Let me pick up on that point about the American Congress and the House of Representatives. There are...
Lord Harper | 518 c841-2 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will soon get to that point and to new clause 4. I just wan...
Pete Wishart | 518 c781 (Link to this contribution) Why on earth should it not be this House that moves its dates? When this Bill was introduced, the Go...
Jonathan Edwards | 518 c775 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct—it is a double insult. If these plans go through unamended, the next devol...
Stephen Williams | 518 c806 (Link to this contribution) While we are discussing historical events, will the hon. Gentleman concede that some of those shorte...
Lord Harper | 518 c839 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Miss Begg. The hon. Gentleman is missing the point. He says that the Government can ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c835 (Link to this contribution) There has been confusion in the House that somehow five years is bad and four years is good. It is a...
Austin Mitchell | 518 c796 (Link to this contribution) Parliament will have the power to dissolve Parliament on a two-thirds vote, I think, in this ludicro...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 518 c797 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being customarily generous in giving way. Does the experience in the congressi...
Andrew Bridgen | 518 c795 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talked about bad practice. Does he agree that an example of the worst sort of bad...
Richard Shepherd | 518 c786-7 (Link to this contribution) The point is that the coalition Government have set their heart on five years, so that is the propos...
Nicholas Dakin | 518 c818 (Link to this contribution) Is it not important that we focus on the people we serve, rather than on structures, time periods an...
Lord Harper | 518 c845 (Link to this contribution) The Scottish Parliament would have the choice to consider the date. It could be moved by up to six m...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 518 c842 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way once more. I do not want to seem pedantic, but for the ...
Subjects
Devolved matters Administration Legislatures General elections Fixed-term parliaments Dissolution Northern Ireland Northern Ireland Assembly National Assembly for Wales Parliament Scotland Wales Scottish Parliament
Legislation
Fixed-term Parliaments Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk