Parliamentary Search

Debate on bill on Thursday, 13 January 2011, in the House of Commons, led by David Gauke. The answering member was Lord Hanson of Flint.

National Insurance Contributions Bill

National Insurance Contributions Bill. Report stage, not amended in Public Bill Committee. Amendments debated and negatived on division. Third reading debate agreed to on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
521 c450-511 
Session
2010-12
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 521 c450 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment 5, page 2, line 20, clause 4, l...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c450-2 (Link to this contribution) The clue to the proposed changes before us is in the words that the Clerk read out, ““not amended in...
Show all contributions (143)
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c452 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome what my right hon. Friend is saying. One of the estimates we should perhaps make...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c452 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. He will know that the Opposition are extremely concerned ab...
Jonathan Edwards | 521 c452 (Link to this contribution) We support the Bill and the right hon. Gentleman's new clause because we fear that the measure will ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c452-3 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the Bill, which the Opposition support, is to consider how we give limited help to st...
Mike Gapes | 521 c453 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend will know that the temporary Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Sk...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c453 (Link to this contribution) This is a Treasury-led issue, but it will self-evidently have an impact on businesses. I would have ...
Joan Ruddock | 521 c453 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency, sadly, unemployment is even higher, but I want to make a different point to my r...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c453-4 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend touches on an important point to which I will return when we discuss the group ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c450 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c459 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, which gives me the opportunity to say what I have ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c459 (Link to this contribution) I am not at all surprised that the Prime Minister was not prepared to be drawn on that. What happens...
Stella Creasy | 521 c459 (Link to this contribution) Does that mean that my hon. Friend agrees with the Minister, who told me in a letter that £940 milli...
Stephen Hammond | 521 c458 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to hear the hon. Gentleman's argument. Has he noticed the latest academic evidence o...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c458-9 (Link to this contribution) I have not seen that academic work, but I will be interested to read it in due course. I remain fair...
Stephen Hammond | 521 c459 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman would like to clarify the number of private sector job losses th...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c460 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and in the context of the current economic situation, the level ...
David Gauke | 521 c460-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to return to the Bill and to some of the arguments that were made many times ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c455 (Link to this contribution) On the point made by the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), is it not important to di...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c455-6 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. One of the key tenets of any objective in society has to be that if we set...
Julian Smith | 521 c454 (Link to this contribution) I do not understand why one could not simply put a call through to Companies House. Why do we need a...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c454-5 (Link to this contribution) We are forgoing £940 million of taxpayers' money, in the shape of national insurance contributions, ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c454 (Link to this contribution) On business deaths and bankruptcies, does my right hon. Friend agree that we have yet to see the ful...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c454 (Link to this contribution) Indeed; my hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. The Minister's objective in the Bill is t...
Stephen Hammond | 521 c457-8 (Link to this contribution) I did not have the benefit of sitting on the Committee, although I did attend Second Reading and I t...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c458 (Link to this contribution) I welcome what was said by my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), and support strong...
Gavin Shuker | 521 c456 (Link to this contribution) Those figures might also draw out the effects on constituencies that border areas that are covered, ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c456-7 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. My hon. Friend knows that there are issues relating to the borders between London, the south...
David Gauke | 521 c462 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. He brings a great deal of business experience to the subject. Tr...
David Mowat | 521 c462 (Link to this contribution) I want to respond to the point about Tatton. Many of my constituents work in Tatton, yet parts of Wa...
David Gauke | 521 c462 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and that is why we are acting on a regional basis.
Lord Cryer | 521 c462 (Link to this contribution) If the information is available, I do not see any problem with just publishing it. I represent some ...
David Gauke | 521 c461-2 (Link to this contribution) It is not an ideological position. I am finding it surprisingly difficult to convince Labour Members...
Gavin Williamson | 521 c462 (Link to this contribution) Seventy per cent. of my constituents travel out of the constituency to work in neighbouring boroughs...
David Gauke | 521 c462 (Link to this contribution) We come back to the central point that we are acting on a regional basis rather than trying to break...
Joan Ruddock | 521 c461 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Exchequer Secretary, who must clarify the matter, for giving way again. If...
David Gauke | 521 c461 (Link to this contribution) I do not intend in any way to restrict what hon. Members ask, or the responses to the questions. My ...
Gavin Shuker | 521 c461 (Link to this contribution) Will the Exchequer Secretary confirm that the evidence we took in Committee shows that there are no ...
David Gauke | 521 c461 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that we will be in a position to provide the information. However, that would no...
Jonathan Edwards | 521 c468 (Link to this contribution) In the light of the situation that he has explained applies in England, does the right hon. Gentlema...
John Healey | 521 c468-9 (Link to this contribution) One of the two consequences of devolution is that in this area of health such decisions are taken in...
Lord Beamish | 521 c467 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the NHS will incur another huge cost—a cost that will not go to...
John Healey | 521 c465-7 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 8, page 2, line 2, at end insert 'The National Audit Office shall report to...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c464-5 (Link to this contribution) The key issue—this is one reason I have suggested an annual report—is that 1,500 is significantly le...
David Gauke | 521 c464 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for letting me intervene. The latest number we have is 1,5...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c463-4 (Link to this contribution) We have had a useful debate. I tabled the new clause and amendments to secure from the Exchequer Sec...
David Gauke | 521 c462-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Certain compliance problems would arise. Could we tell whether a...
Mel Stride | 521 c462 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree with Mr Mitah from HMRC who pointed out in Committee that the greater comp...
Mel Stride | 521 c469 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept that, irrespective of whether the amendment is accepted, the Government ha...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c470-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly in support of the amendment. I strongly endorse what my right hon. Friend the ...
Stella Creasy | 521 c469-70 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises the interesting question of how we guarantee that. That is precisely the p...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c471-2 (Link to this contribution) I believe that there is a massive difference between the proportion of gross national product spent ...
Steve Baker | 521 c471 (Link to this contribution) I cannot help wondering whether the hon. Gentleman realises that Buckinghamshire, for example, has i...
Gavin Shuker | 521 c472 (Link to this contribution) Have not the Government already accepted the case for the hypothecation of national insurance contri...
Sheila Gilmore | 521 c472 (Link to this contribution) It has puzzled me slightly over the years that successive Governments, and the Treasury in particula...
Stephen Timms | 521 c488 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it is the Deputy Speaker's responsibility.
Gavin Williamson | 521 c488 (Link to this contribution) Do you not accept that the 11,000 pages of tax code, which doubled under the last Labour Government,...
Stephen Timms | 521 c488 (Link to this contribution) This is what the Prime Minister called for in November:"““The right framework, so it's easier for ne...
Speaker | 521 c488 (Link to this contribution) In fairness, some may hold me responsible, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I am not.
Stephen Timms | 521 c489-91 (Link to this contribution) I reassure the hon. Lady that when I was in the Treasury, I put an enormous amount of effort into su...
Stephen Timms | 521 c488-9 (Link to this contribution) I have always taken the view that self-employment is a very important vehicle for helping people not...
Andrew Bridgen | 521 c488 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman welcome the coalition Government's reintroduction of the enterprise al...
Speaker | 521 c489 (Link to this contribution) Order. I was not in the Treasury. I am getting a lot of your blame, and I do not like it.
Harriett Baldwin | 521 c489 (Link to this contribution) I am fascinated to hear the right hon. Gentleman make these points, because I do not remember you pr...
Stella Creasy | 521 c486 (Link to this contribution) I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to the fact that business men and women in the south-east may ...
Andrew Bingham | 521 c486 (Link to this contribution) I support the general idea and hear the points that Opposition Members make, but we have to remember...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c484-6 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an important point supporting my central argument. I am trying to argue o...
Stephen Timms | 521 c488 (Link to this contribution) I take a good deal of satisfaction from the progress that we saw with the development of high-tech b...
Gavin Williamson | 521 c488 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman feel a sense of responsibility, as a former Minister, for the 11,000 p...
Stephen Timms | 521 c487-8 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. I also agree with the hon. Member for High Peak (Andrew Bi...
Joan Ruddock | 521 c487 (Link to this contribution) I think my right hon. Friend is providing the answer to the hon. Member for High Peak (Andrew Bingha...
Stephen Timms | 521 c486-7 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) for tabling the amendmen...
Andrew Bingham | 521 c486 (Link to this contribution) We have expensive houses in High Peak—I have seen something on my BlackBerry today about house price...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c481-2 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes that point in relation to Lewisham and her constituency, but as I shall d...
Joan Ruddock | 521 c481 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my right hon. Friend is aware that the average level of public sector employment in the UK i...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c482 (Link to this contribution) I certainly would not have abolished the regional development agencies or cut public spending with t...
Jonathan Edwards | 521 c482 (Link to this contribution) I accept the point made by the right hon. Gentleman, but does he not recognise the need to rebalance...
Mike Gapes | 521 c482 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend refers to 23 of the top 100 constituencies, but if he extends the list to 105 c...
Henry Smith | 521 c483 (Link to this contribution) As an MP from the south-east, I resent being put into this invidious situation. But why does the rig...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c482-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Would I ever try to miss out the good constituency of Ilford South?...
Joan Ruddock | 521 c484 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way yet again. He may be aware that of the 10 ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c483-4 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to discuss macro and micro-economic issues with the hon. Gentleman. There is a clear divi...
John Healey | 521 c476 (Link to this contribution) The Minister was talking about the shadow Chancellor and the approach we take to the decisions that ...
Chris Leslie | 521 c476-7 (Link to this contribution) I should like to say how pleased I am that my right hon. Friend the shadow Health Secretary has been...
David Gauke | 521 c476 (Link to this contribution) That was the shadow Chancellor's position then, but I believe that a few days earlier he had said th...
Speaker | 521 c480 (Link to this contribution) With this we will discuss the following: Amendment 2, page 2, line 21, leave out subsection (5). A...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c480 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 1, page 2, line 9, leave out paragraph (b).
Chris Leslie | 521 c477-8 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. My hon. Friends the Members for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins), for Walthamstow (Dr Creasy...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c477 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentioned inflation costs, over which the health service currently has no control, be...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c481 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the amendments is self-evident and clear. We discussed this issue at great length in ...
Gavin Shuker | 521 c509-10 (Link to this contribution) I, like many hon. Members, have followed the debate extremely closely. When the changes were first a...
Jonathan Edwards | 521 c510-1 (Link to this contribution) In general we support the Bill, not because we think it will make much of a difference—as we have he...
David Gauke | 521 c508 (Link to this contribution) As we discussed in earlier stages of the debate, it is right that we look at this closely to see tha...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c508 (Link to this contribution) This is the fourth Treasury Bill that I have dealt with as Opposition Treasury spokesman in four mon...
David Gauke | 521 c508 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Gentleman will know, the policy that we are pursuing is entirely consistent with w...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c508-9 (Link to this contribution) The electoral rhetoric does not match the actuality of this Bill. The Minister has rightly said that...
David Gauke | 521 c503 (Link to this contribution) That is the same Federation of Small Businesses that said that the Labour party's policy to increase...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c503-4 (Link to this contribution) We have had a very good debate, and my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) and...
David Gauke | 521 c506-7 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. We have reached the final stage of the Hou...
Nick de Bois | 521 c507 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister advise whether he envisages any problems from perhaps less than scrupulous compani...
Mike Gapes | 521 c503 (Link to this contribution) The Minister refers to the FSB. Will he confirm that it wrote before Christmas saying that his propo...
Stephen Timms | 521 c502 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister received representations from the Department for Communities and Local Government a...
David Gauke | 521 c502-3 (Link to this contribution) Not that I am aware of, but as the right hon. Gentleman knows, tax is a matter for the Treasury. I m...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c502 (Link to this contribution) The chief economic adviser for the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development has said that"““...
David Gauke | 521 c502 (Link to this contribution) I recommend to the hon. Gentleman the radio programme ““More or Less””, which recently pointed out t...
David Gauke | 521 c502 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to reopen the whole argument on everything that should be done to reduce the deficit, ...
David Gauke | 521 c502 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to someone who has not been advocating cuts in national insurance contributions.
David Gauke | 521 c501 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman knows the state of the public finances that we have inherited. We have purs...
Ian Murray | 521 c501-2 (Link to this contribution) Let me give the Minister a little of my experience as a business owner with up to 12 staff. Small en...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 521 c501 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House why the net benefit of this Bill as a whole is a £1.42 billio...
David Gauke | 521 c500 (Link to this contribution) I will give way on that point, but the central point I want to make is that all Labour Members fough...
Stephen Timms | 521 c500 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. On 6 January, the Prime Minister spoke—I think at No. ...
David Gauke | 521 c500-1 (Link to this contribution) The Government are doing a great deal to help London. We need only consider the transport infrastruc...
Gavin Shuker | 521 c498-9 (Link to this contribution) I believe these amendments would make a real and fundamental difference to people in my constituency...
David Gauke | 521 c499 (Link to this contribution) In this group of amendments, the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) has returned to a matter th...
Joan Ruddock | 521 c499-500 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister goes into more detail—I warn him that I might seek to intervene again then—can h...
David Gauke | 521 c500 (Link to this contribution) Of course the Treasury examined all these matters in respect of its policies as a whole, its budget ...
David Gauke | 521 c500 (Link to this contribution) I want to develop this point, but I shall give way after I have done so. We want to encourage the cr...
Ian Murray | 521 c496 (Link to this contribution) As was pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), my constituency...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c493-4 (Link to this contribution) I am strongly in favour of proper targeting, but the RDAs could do that: they could look at their re...
Mike Gapes | 521 c494-5 (Link to this contribution) Allegedly, we are all in this together. If so, why is it that those of us in east London, along with...
Sheila Gilmore | 521 c491-2 (Link to this contribution) As a Member from Scotland, I might be expected to give the Scottish whinge about how everything goes...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c493 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but the Government have chosen to play down regiona...
Stephen Williams | 521 c493 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said that the Government have abandoned regionalism. It is true that RDAs are goi...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c492-3 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendments, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) moved...
Kelvin Hopkins | 521 c475 (Link to this contribution) We have to be very precise about what we mean when talking about cutting funding. Previous Governmen...
Mike Gapes | 521 c474 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but I have read the tests. They talk about clinical sup...
David Gauke | 521 c474-5 (Link to this contribution) First, may I welcome the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey)? It is a great ple...
Mike Gapes | 521 c474 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. The hon. Gentleman will know that the previous Member of Parlia...
Nick de Bois | 521 c474 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should take some comfort, as we have done since the election, from the fact that ...
Mike Gapes | 521 c473 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief. This amendment is important. As my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Dr Creas...
Nick de Bois | 521 c473 (Link to this contribution) She has not done away with it yet, and nor, indeed, has North Central London, but they have been put...
Sheila Gilmore | 521 c472-3 (Link to this contribution) It is true that they have not chosen to retreat from the path taken by the previous Government, but ...
Joan Ruddock | 521 c461 (Link to this contribution) The Exchequer Secretary seemed to say that even if an hon. Member tabled a parliamentary question re...
John Healey | 521 c467-8 (Link to this contribution) It is an extraordinary state of affairs that a series of serious and significant pledges, set out fo...
Stella Creasy | 521 c469 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to amendment 8, because it goes to the heart of the Bill and what we do in this Hous...
Stella Creasy | 521 c495-6 (Link to this contribution) I want to talk about three things in my comments on the amendment, the first of which is the test se...
Neil Carmichael | 521 c493 (Link to this contribution) Surely the whole point of the regional argument is that we should be focusing on the regions that ne...
David Gauke | 521 c475-6 (Link to this contribution) I note the hon. Gentleman's remarks. The position is set out in the coalition agreement, and the Oct...
Lord Cryer | 521 c459 (Link to this contribution) May I remind my hon. Friend that some time ago, leaked Treasury papers demonstrated clearly that une...
Stella Creasy | 521 c496-8 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good point. I am talking about the public sector workers who are most at risk of redu...
Subjects
Business Employment Finance Greater London Increases National insurance NHS National Insurance Fund Public sector National insurance contributions New businesses VAT Take-up South East East of England
Legislation
National Insurance Contributions Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk