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Debate on bill on Friday, 21 January 2011, in the House of Commons, led by Sharon Hodgson. The answering member was Hugh Robertson.

Sale of Tickets (Sporting and Cultural Events) Bill

Second reading. Debate adjourned. Debate to be resumed on 13 May.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
521 c1160-97 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Culture, Media and Sport
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Private members' bills proceedings
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Brown of Silvertown | 521 c1164 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows, I am particularly concerned about the issue of tickets touts and the Olympi...
Show all contributions (147)
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1163-4 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind. Will the Minister tell us what his civil serva...
Philip Davies | 521 c1164 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady talks about her constituents and mine being exploited by ticket touts, but does she no...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1164 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do, and I shall come on to the Olympic games shortly. One of my suggestions is that we w...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 521 c1162 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for being both gracious and generous in giving way a second time so quickly. I...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1162 (Link to this contribution) The charity decides on the price based on the genuine, ordinary fans whom it wishes to attract. It i...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1162 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my surprise that Government Members support a system that excludes their c...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1162 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point. Government Members have a lot of good arguments on the free market, bu...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1162-3 (Link to this contribution) I would like to move on. I have a long speech, and I would like to get through the details. I am, o...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1167-8 (Link to this contribution) It could be higher, but a level 5 offence is laid down in the Olympics legislation, which I have use...
David Nuttall | 521 c1167 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Lady saying that she has decided to restrict the offence to level 5 because of an order ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1169 (Link to this contribution) We had a long debate about that, and 10% was deemed to be sufficiently small that there would be no ...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1169 (Link to this contribution) I am intrigued to know why the hon. Lady selected 10%, rather than 20%, 30% or 40%.
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1168-9 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman says, we cannot get rid of the secondary market, just as we cannot stop people...
Philip Davies | 521 c1168 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not see that there is a potential problem with restricting the resale value to ju...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1165-6 (Link to this contribution) Some are, and later in my speech I shall say that as part of the legislation, there could be discuss...
Hugh Robertson | 521 c1166 (Link to this contribution) I looked at this issue carefully when we were in opposition. It was alleged that ticket touting was ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1165 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to that point, too; I shall mention that I encourage primary sellers to offer a refund ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1166-7 (Link to this contribution) I certainly will do so, and I will pass on all the correspondence that I have received from the seni...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1169-70 (Link to this contribution) I know. It was very enjoyable, and Mr McAndrew, who welcomed the Bill, summed up the situation succi...
Philip Davies | 521 c1170 (Link to this contribution) I am very interested to hear the hon. Lady say that sporting bodies set their tickets at ordinary pr...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1170 (Link to this contribution) I contest that point, because the reverse is true. That body would have released tickets to clubs th...
Speaker | 521 c1161 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members should work through the Chair, rather than talk across to each other.
Philip Davies | 521 c1161 (Link to this contribution) I wonder who the hon. Lady sees as the victim. If a charity wants to sell tickets at £46 each and so...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1161 (Link to this contribution) The charity does not get the whole £46. On average, with overheads and so on, charities reckon that ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1160-1 (Link to this contribution) Not at the moment. There will be plenty of chances for Government Members to speak. We have plenty o...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1160 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, that the Bill be now read a Second time. The reason for my bringing forward the Bill...
Philip Davies | 521 c1192 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point about what constitutes a ““real fan”” in these matters. If somebod...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1192 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend care to meet some of the music managers with me and be lectured by them? Perhap...
Philip Davies | 521 c1192-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a tempting offer and it would be churlish of me to turn it down, so I look forw...
Christopher Chope | 521 c1193 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend sure that the promoters are not losing out? They could be selling their tickets at...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1187 (Link to this contribution) I think the hon. Lady will find that most secondary market sales, such as those on eBay, are exempt ...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1187 (Link to this contribution) Setting to one side the ludicrous fantasy that tickets at Bristol City have ever gone at many times ...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1187-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware of the current rules and regulations surrounding the issue. We...
Philip Davies | 521 c1188-9 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) on bringing forward ...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1186 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that there could not be any improvements in the system. I have no intention of talking...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1186 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. Given that he was unable to guarantee that...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1187 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is talking about those salt of the earth-type individuals selling on tickets and ...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1185 (Link to this contribution) It is a varied market, and different promoters and creative acts will wish to sell their tickets in ...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1186 (Link to this contribution) I take the point that my hon. Friend is making, but I have already answered that question. Ticket r...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1185 (Link to this contribution) Is that not exactly the point? The copyright holder themselves can make that judgment. Many promoter...
Philip Davies | 521 c1191-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend's question helps to illustrate the point: where would it end if the Government went d...
David Nuttall | 521 c1192 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has just mentioned the term ““real fan””, while earlier we heard a number of referenc...
Philip Davies | 521 c1190-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend on many things, but not on this. I believe that if I sell a product to s...
David Nuttall | 521 c1191 (Link to this contribution) That raises the interesting question of what would happen in the stamp market. People often buy stam...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1190 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I thank him for his comments, but does he agree that the poin...
Philip Davies | 521 c1189-90 (Link to this contribution) That is a perfectly fair point, but the hon. Gentleman did not manage to persuade his Government to ...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1189 (Link to this contribution) I can assure the hon. Gentleman that new Labour is not dead. I said I believed in free markets, open...
Philip Davies | 521 c1189 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend spotted that, too, but the situation is beyond my control. If you, Madam Deputy Speak...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 521 c1189 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will have to do that, because this particular business ends at 2.30 pm so the time av...
Philip Davies | 521 c1189 (Link to this contribution) I heard the hon. Lady's argument the first time around; I was not persuaded by it then and I am not ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1189 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman is having sport with me, because he knows I am not saying that people...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1183-4 (Link to this contribution) I support the Bill going into Committee so that it can be examined in detail and we can find solutio...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1184 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) on bringing the Bill...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1183 (Link to this contribution) With respect, I am not talking anything out, I am debating. The hon. Gentleman is not making any se...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1182 (Link to this contribution) I understand that, like me, the hon. Gentleman was educated in Dudley, but given the nonsense that h...
Philip Davies | 521 c1182 (Link to this contribution) On fair access, may I give the hon. Gentleman a scenario to find out what he makes of it? I might re...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1182 (Link to this contribution) Of course such things are illegal, but they are happening. We should examine—[Interruption.] New tec...
Philip Davies | 521 c1182 (Link to this contribution) I am rather surprised at the hon. Gentleman's fake outrage, because I posed a perfectly legitimate q...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1183 (Link to this contribution) I am confused about the hon. Gentleman's position. He started by supporting the Bill, or implying th...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1183 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has obviously not been listening. I said that I completely understand why my hon....
Sajid Javid | 521 c1183 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps not, but the hon. Gentleman can correct me. He talks about free and fair markets, but he can...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1185 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a fair point. In some cases, that can be advantageous, but I accept that where ...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1185 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the people who should be making that judgment are the music promoters...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 521 c1185 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend might cast his mind over the issue of people buying up large numbers...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1184 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment, but I shall just finish answering the hon. Gentleman's point.
Sajid Javid | 521 c1184 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Of course I cannot guarantee that; no one can guar...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1184 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that there are any problems associated with the secondary market at th...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1185 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady seems to suggest that anyone who earns a profit over a certain margin must be engaged ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1185 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not recognise that limiting the price at which a ticket can be resold will r...
Sajid Javid | 521 c1184-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and we should not do that. The hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) has had ample time in ...
Philip Davies | 521 c1184 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) is trying to talk the Bill out.
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1176 (Link to this contribution) As far as I am aware, tickets for the major charity events all have on them ““not to be resold”” or ...
Philip Davies | 521 c1176 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady give way for a helpful point?
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1175-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that clarification. If the IOC made that stipulation, it will have been for...
Graham P Jones | 521 c1176 (Link to this contribution) When it says on a ticket that it is not transferrable, can that be enforced in law? If that is the c...
Hugh Robertson | 521 c1175 (Link to this contribution) On a matter of fact, for a small number of major international tournaments it is a requirement of th...
Philip Davies | 521 c1178 (Link to this contribution) The problem with this line of argument—the comparison with general intellectual property—is that wit...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1176-7 (Link to this contribution) That would be because there is no legislation on the statute book to say that that is a criminal off...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1177-8 (Link to this contribution) I refer hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members' Financial Interests. I congratulate th...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point. It is entirely accurate to say that the s...
Sarah Newton | 521 c1180 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that we have rightly, as a coalition Government, focused on wanting to sup...
Speaker | 521 c1180 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Lady should be speaking through the Chair. I find it difficult to hear otherwise.
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1178-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point, to which I shall give a specific answer later...
Philip Davies | 521 c1179 (Link to this contribution) It is interesting that my hon. Friend uses football as an example because as the Minister said, the ...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1179 (Link to this contribution) I have spoken to various football authorities about this, and the reason they allow the selling on o...
Graham P Jones | 521 c1179 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) raised the security issue, and I am somewhat confused by...
Sarah Newton | 521 c1181 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; of course, Mr Deputy Speaker. Quite rightly, the coalition Government have focused on s...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1181 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point. If a business wants to develop its products, it might underp...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1181-2 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson). She is a ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1172 (Link to this contribution) They should not necessarily have to raise that issue with eBay to get the money back. What is more, ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1173-4 (Link to this contribution) No, I am going to carry on. Assuming that about half the face value of the ticket represents the pr...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1172-3 (Link to this contribution) No, I am going to carry on. A large part of the fundraising activities to support the trust's wonde...
Philip Davies | 521 c1174 (Link to this contribution) I commend the hon. Lady for leading with her chin on that particular point, because all the surveys ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1174 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I am making a frivolous or a self-indulgent speech. I ask such Members whether ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1174 (Link to this contribution) I would love to give way to my hon. Friend.
Graham P Jones | 521 c1174 (Link to this contribution) I have wanted to make the following point for quite a while. There is a tax revenue issue in respect...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1174-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point. I did not address it at length, although I did touch ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1175 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, in order to hear what he has to say.
Sajid Javid | 521 c1175 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for being so generous with her time and giving way for a second time. First, I...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1175 (Link to this contribution) Well, such restrictions are law of this land now; that is what will happen for Olympics tickets. Som...
Philip Davies | 521 c1172 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady talks about the Teenage Cancer Trust, but as she is probably aware from her research, ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1172 (Link to this contribution) I shall be interested to see how the hon. Gentleman is going to explain his opposition to that.
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1171-2 (Link to this contribution) Definitely; I certainly agree. I am so grateful for that intervention. If the hon. Lady wants to mak...
Sarah Newton | 521 c1171 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that in this House we sometimes struggle to find issues of relevance to you...
Philip Davies | 521 c1172 (Link to this contribution) May I intervene on that very point?
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1170 (Link to this contribution) It is bizarre—but not surprising. I know that not all Government Members will agree, and if any who ...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1170 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend as perplexed as I am why Government Members would rather see touts buy up tickets ...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1170-1 (Link to this contribution) Definitely. I do not think that the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) quite realised he was he...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1170 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that what my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) just said r...
Philip Davies | 521 c1193 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend does not mind my saying so, he states the obvious. Obviously, if the market would ...
Philip Davies | 521 c1193 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's assertion that ticket touts prevent people from accessing ticke...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1193 (Link to this contribution) I would like the hon. Gentleman to address the central question; it has not yet been dealt with. Is ...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 521 c1194 (Link to this contribution) I am not arguing with the points the hon. Gentleman makes about the secondary market. I am simply as...
Philip Davies | 521 c1194 (Link to this contribution) It was the hon. Lady who spoke for an hour, not me. If she had shown some discipline during her spee...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1194 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a flamboyant and interesting speech in his usual manner, and he may hav...
Speaker | 521 c1194-5 (Link to this contribution) I know how frustrating Fridays are for those who have Bills that are down the line, but my job in th...
Philip Davies | 521 c1195 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I am glad that you think that the points that I have made are ...
Mike Weatherley | 521 c1196 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has set out a good economic analysis. Does he accept that in commercial terms there i...
Philip Davies | 521 c1195-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is ingenious as ever. That might be something that the Procedure Committee will want ...
Christopher Chope | 521 c1195 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that if there was a secondary market in the ability to have a private Mem...
Christopher Chope | 521 c1197 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend confirm that if this debate is not concluded today, it is open to the hon. Lady ...
Philip Davies | 521 c1197 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his mathematical genius.
Philip Davies | 521 c1196 (Link to this contribution) As I made clear at the start of my speech—I hope that I am considered to be someone who sticks to th...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1196 (Link to this contribution) In the two minutes remaining, I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman will allow the Minister to say a f...
Philip Davies | 521 c1197 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is, with good reason, considered to be the expert on Friday rules, if I can put it li...
Philip Davies | 521 c1176 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) has made a fair point. Some tickets do say that they are...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1174 (Link to this contribution) My Bill would not stop them from being able to resell a ticket. My Bill would allow them to resell t...
Philip Davies | 521 c1194 (Link to this contribution) I am not aware that the hon. Gentleman in his speech or the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderlan...
David Nuttall | 521 c1196 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may like to know that those who have spoken in favour of the Bill spoke for 85 minute...
Sharon Hodgson | 521 c1175 (Link to this contribution) I will not. I suspect that the hon. Gentleman might want to say, ““Therefore, we should regulate tou...
Joan Walley | 521 c1194 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Further to my point of order earlier this morning, is this n...
Philip Davies | 521 c1196 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. My hon. Friend has made some perfectly reasonable points, but I happen to disagree with them...
Notes
Hansard cites one of the relevant documents as 'Government response...Cm 7436' which should be Cm 7346.
Subjects
Proceeds of crime Sports Touting Tickets
Legislation
Sale of Tickets (Sporting and Cultural Events) Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk