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Debate on bill on Friday, 10 February 2012, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Steel of Aikwood. The answering member was Lord Wallace of Saltaire.

House of Lords Reform Bill [HL]

House of Lords Reform Bill (HL). Lords report stage. Bill, as amended, ordered to be printed (HL Bill 127).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
735 c526-44 
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Private members' bills proceedings
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Viscount Astor | 735 c529 (Link to this contribution) 241: Clause 12, page 5, line 35, leave out ““of reasonable merit”” and insert ““reasonable””
Viscount Astor | 735 c530 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not have a clue because luckily I am not a lawyer. As it seems that we have rather a ...
Show all contributions (97)
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c530 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Steel, will resist any sense of moving away from Clause 1...
Viscount Astor | 735 c529-30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if it is for the convenience of your Lordships, perhaps I may also say a brief word about ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 735 c530 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Viscount certain that the phrase in Clause 16, "““unless otherwise disqualified by anot...
Earl of Caithness | 735 c531 (Link to this contribution) 280: Clause 15, page 6, line 17, at end insert— ““(2) A person found guilty and sentenced under subs...
Earl of Caithness | 735 c531 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in Committee we had a good discussion about this clause, as my noble friend Lord Astor has...
Viscount Astor | 735 c531 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the response from the noble Lord, Lord Steel. As I said, my amendment wa...
Viscount Astor | 735 c529 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I grouped this amendment with Amendment 234. The noble Lord, Lord Steel, indicated that he...
Viscount Astor | 735 c529 (Link to this contribution) 275: Clause 15, page 6, line 17, at end insert ““for the duration of their sentence””
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) I did move it but I do not propose to precipitate a Division. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment....
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) I think it is perfectly reasonable, but my noble friend said that he was not moving it.
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) I am keen on Amendment 237. I beg to move.
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am happy to accept the amendment. Amendment 237 agreed. Amendment 238 not moved. Amen...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) 239: Clause 12, page 5, line 32, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall””
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, should explain to the House the consequences of changing “...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as I am ordered to explain, it is simply for clarity and the avoidance of doubt.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c529 (Link to this contribution) I know that we are on Report but that will not do. The noble Lord’s Bill is very clear on when the H...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c529 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to delay your Lordships. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 239 withdra...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c526 (Link to this contribution) 215B: Clause 10, leave out Clause 10 Amendment 215B agreed. Amendments 216 to 218 not moved. Clau...
Earl of Caithness | 735 c526 (Link to this contribution) At end to insert ““but that this House regrets that these issues are being dealt with in a Private M...
Baroness D'Souza | 735 c526 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should make it clear that if there is no unanimity on Amendment 215B, and in accordance ...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Speaker but it would be helpful to have the view of the noble Lord, Lord Steel, o...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the amendment is self-explanatory and I do not intend to detain your Lordships on it....
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) 235: Clause 12, page 5, line 31, at end insert ““or leave of absence for such shorter period of not ...
Viscount Astor | 735 c527 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. Amendment 234 agreed. Amendment 235 Moved by
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c527 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am happy to accept both the amendments.
Lord True | 735 c527 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to Amendment 234. I have had other amendments passed over which I am ...
Viscount Astor | 735 c527 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps it would be convenient for your Lordships if I addressed Amendments 234 and 241, a...
Viscount Astor | 735 c527 (Link to this contribution) 234: Clause 12, page 5, line 30, leave out ““three”” and insert ““six””
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c526 (Link to this contribution) That the Report be now received. That the Report be now received. Tabled by
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 735 c538 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having listened with great interest to what has been going on this afternoon, perhaps I ma...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c538-9 (Link to this contribution) Clause 18 was not in the original Bill; it was added in an amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord D...
Lord Dubs | 735 c536-7 (Link to this contribution) I am rather disappointed with this amendment, as we considered the provision in some detail in Commi...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c536 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a matter of some importance and principle. For centuries it has been the case that...
Earl of Erroll | 735 c537 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I disagree with the amendment. Although I do not think that a few votes will make much dif...
Viscount Astor | 735 c537 (Link to this contribution) The House debated the matter. It did not make any binding decision, therefore it is perfectly open t...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c537-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Steel, will consider this point. Clearly it is an important p...
Lord True | 735 c537 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rather agree on constitutional principle with my noble friend Lord Trefgarne, but I do n...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c538 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we speak of nothing else in Telford or in Kings Heath but this very important matter. I c...
Lord Dubs | 735 c538 (Link to this contribution) I am rather disappointed by what my noble friend is saying. How many Members of the other place has ...
Lord True | 735 c536 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I suppose that was a reply from my noble friend to the amendment. I made very clear at the...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c536 (Link to this contribution) 300: Clause 18, leave out Clause 18
Lord Richard | 735 c535 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that I may say a word on this. We had this discussion some weeks ago. My own positi...
Lord Desai | 735 c534 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I make the same request to the noble Lord, Lord True. Amendment 280, which was moved but l...
Lord Cormack | 735 c534 (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, has said. However, I ask my noble friend on the Front B...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 735 c535 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hear very clearly what the noble Lord says. He understands the restrictions under which ...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c535 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I understand why the Government will take a little time t...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 735 c535 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having been in government himself, I am sure that the noble Lord on the opposite Bench wil...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 735 c535 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I echo the words of my noble friend and the Minister. To get consensus on a short Bill tha...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c535-6 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may add that I discussed this matter with the Deputy Prime Minister some time ago, and the...
Lord Selsdon | 735 c543 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask for clarification as regards the Long Title. One of the amendments I proposed earl...
Lord Selsdon | 735 c543 (Link to this contribution) I therefore feel slightly confused by the Long Title as regards where it says ““hereditary peerage””...
Lord Selsdon | 735 c543 (Link to this contribution) 312: In the Title, line 2, after ““creation”” insert ““and continuation””
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c543 (Link to this contribution) 310: In the Title, line 1, leave out from beginning to second ““to”” in line 2
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c542 (Link to this contribution) 152: Clause 7, leave out Clause 7 Amendment 152 agreed. Clause 8 : Principles to be followed in ma...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c542 (Link to this contribution) 148: Clause 6, leave out Clause 6 Amendment 148 agreed. Clause 7 : Certificate to be conclusive C...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c542 (Link to this contribution) 201: Clause 9, leave out Clause 9 Amendment 201 agreed. Amendments 202 to 206 not moved. In the T...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c542 (Link to this contribution) 189: Clause 8, leave out Clause 8 Amendment 189 agreed. Amendment 190 not moved. Clause 9 : Party...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c541-2 (Link to this contribution) 114: Clause 4, leave out Clause 4 Amendment 114 agreed. Clause 5 : Nominees to meet specific crite...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c541 (Link to this contribution) 94: Clause 2, leave out Clause 2 Amendment 94 agreed. Clause 3 : Commission to determine rules and...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c541 (Link to this contribution) 100: Clause 3, leave out Clause 3 Amendment 100 agreed. Amendment 101 not moved. Clause 4 : Propo...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c541 (Link to this contribution) 24: Clause 1, leave out Clause 1 Amendment 24 agreed. Amendments 25 and 26 not moved. Clause 2 : ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 735 c540-1 (Link to this contribution) One of the things that I learnt in my youth is the saying, which I am not sure is parliamentary lang...
Lord Tyler | 735 c539-40 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sure that when other Members of your Lordships’ House who have experience of Fridays ...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c539 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move an amendment to the Short Title of the Bill simply because, having pared the...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c539 (Link to this contribution) 306A: Clause 20, page 7, line 11, leave out ““House of Lords Reform Act 2010”” and insert ““House of...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c539 (Link to this contribution) Having removed from the Bill the Appointments Commission and the section on hereditary by-elections,...
Lord Grocott | 735 c533-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the House is in a mood to reach as much agreement as possible on Report. We are not far fr...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c533 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I referred to this matter in my speech. This is the point that my noble friend Lord Dobbs ...
Earl of Caithness | 735 c532 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. I am even more inclined to withdraw the amendment and we can discu...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c532 (Link to this contribution) 291: Clause 17, leave out Clause 17 Amendment 291 agreed. Amendment 292 Moved by
Lord True | 735 c532 (Link to this contribution) 292: After Clause 17, insert the following new Clause— ““Refusal or failure to repay wrongly claimed...
Lord True | 735 c532-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in speaking to this amendment, I make it absolutely clear that I have no intention of test...
Earl of Erroll | 735 c531 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the world is a complex place and rules very rarely work in it because there is always some...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c531-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in answer to my noble friend Lord Caithness, no, the provisions in the Bill are definitely...
Earl of Caithness | 735 c532 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder whether it might not be better if I withdrew this amendment, talked to my noble f...
Lord Norton of Louth | 735 c532 (Link to this contribution) If I can help my noble friend, my recollection is that the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill...
Lord Selsdon | 735 c543 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I was moving an amendment but I was asking for clarification. I apologise for that. Can anyone ...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c543-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend raises an important point. I think that the amendment moved by the noble L...
Lord Selsdon | 735 c544 (Link to this contribution) It is the simple matter that if the Long Title is wrong, it is wrong. Is it wrong or is it right?
Lord Selsdon | 735 c544 (Link to this contribution) It is right. That is all I need to know. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 312 withd...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c544 (Link to this contribution) 314: In the Title, line 6, leave out ““and for connected purposes””
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c544 (Link to this contribution) 312A: In the Title, line 2, leave out ““to restrict membership of the House of Lords by virtue of he...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c544 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an important alteration to the Long Title for the following reason. We have talked...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c530-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I undertook in Committee to look at this matter and discuss it with the Ministry of Justic...
Lord Trefgarne | 735 c528 (Link to this contribution) 237: Clause 12, page 5, line 31, at end insert— ““( ) Subsection (1) shall not apply to any member s...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 735 c534 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I take up the cue provided by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott—I think we are within sight of ...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c543 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment simply brings the Long Title of the Bill into line with its reduced content...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 735 c542 (Link to this contribution) 136: Clause 5, leave out Clause 5 Amendment 136 agreed. Clause 6 : Guidelines Clause 6 : Guidelin...
Viscount Astor | 735 c533 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when the Minister responds to this amendment, perhaps he could tell us what the rules are ...
Notes
Bill title changed
Subjects
Criminal records Allowances House of Lords House of Commons Eligibility Disqualification Hereditary peers House of Lords composition Leave House of Lords Appointments Commission Members Peers Life peers Reform Voting rights
Legislation
House of Lords Reform Bill (HL) 2010-12
House of Lords (Amendment) Bill (HL) 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk