I am most grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Bledisloe, and the noble and learned Baroness for their responses. I agree with him that if a judge is not in a position to make that assessment, and there may be circumstances in which he is not, that poses a difficulty...

I am most grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Bledisloe, and the noble and learned Baroness for their responses. I agree with him that if a judge is not in a position to make that assessment, and there may be circumstances in which he is not, that poses a difficulty...

I am slightly puzzled by this amendment. I fully accept that if the court has a reason to believe the things set out in Amendment No. 6A, that would certainly be a reason why the order should not be made. But surely the main problem about anonymity is that one...

I am slightly puzzled by this amendment. I fully accept that if the court has a reason to believe the things set out in Amendment No. 6A, that would certainly be a reason why the order should not be made. But surely the main problem about anonymity is that one...

We believe that at the moment, as a result of H and C and the current framework, it is possible—the court has the power—to invite the Attorney-General to appoint a special counsel if it is deemed that that is necessary and appropriate. We can already do that. Now we have...

We believe that at the moment, as a result of H and C and the current framework, it is possible—the court has the power—to invite the Attorney-General to appoint a special counsel if it is deemed that that is necessary and appropriate. We can already do that. Now we have...

I do not know what the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, will do, but I shall seek the opinion of the Committee on my amendment in any event. It is necessary to have a proper framework rather than leaving it to the individual judge to decide the scope and powers of...

I do not know what the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, will do, but I shall seek the opinion of the Committee on my amendment in any event. It is necessary to have a proper framework rather than leaving it to the individual judge to decide the scope and powers of...

Not for the first time in my political life, I am absolutely bemused by the attitude of the Liberal party. Is the noble Lord seriously suggesting that he will divide the Committee on an amendment when we have had a discussion whose main feature has been comity across the party...

Not for the first time in my political life, I am absolutely bemused by the attitude of the Liberal party. Is the noble Lord seriously suggesting that he will divide the Committee on an amendment when we have had a discussion whose main feature has been comity across the party...

While I have every sympathy with the amendment, which has been drafted very carefully by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, and to which I was very proud to attach my name, given in the circumstances, and bearing in mind the way in which the noble and learned Baroness...

While I have every sympathy with the amendment, which has been drafted very carefully by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, and to which I was very proud to attach my name, given in the circumstances, and bearing in mind the way in which the noble and learned Baroness...

In the debate on this group of amendments, I have become something of an innocent bystander—at least, some might say that it is in my self-interest to portray myself in that disguise. As the noble and learned Baroness must know, I am extremely sympathetic to the amendments of both the...

In the debate on this group of amendments, I have become something of an innocent bystander—at least, some might say that it is in my self-interest to portray myself in that disguise. As the noble and learned Baroness must know, I am extremely sympathetic to the amendments of both the...

had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 4C: 4C: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of considering an application for a witness anonymity order the court may appoint special counsel from the Attorney General’s Panel of Special Counsel to...

had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 4C: 4C: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of considering an application for a witness anonymity order the court may appoint special counsel from the Attorney General’s Panel of Special Counsel to...

moved Amendment No. 4D: 4D: Clause 4, page 2, line 36, leave out ““C”” and insert ““D”” The noble Lord said: I shall speak also to the other amendments in this line. The operative amendment in it is Amendment No. 6A. Amendments Nos. 4D, 7D and 8B are consequential upon...

moved Amendment No. 4D: 4D: Clause 4, page 2, line 36, leave out ““C”” and insert ““D”” The noble Lord said: I shall speak also to the other amendments in this line. The operative amendment in it is Amendment No. 6A. Amendments Nos. 4D, 7D and 8B are consequential upon...

The noble and learned Baroness the Attorney-General has not explained what is wrong with Amendment No. 4C. She has simply said that the Government do not accept it. From what she has said so far, I do not understand why. The amendment does not prescribe a statutory scheme; all it...

The noble and learned Baroness the Attorney-General has not explained what is wrong with Amendment No. 4C. She has simply said that the Government do not accept it. From what she has said so far, I do not understand why. The amendment does not prescribe a statutory scheme; all it...

I support what the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, has just said. We should not lose sight of the fact that the Bill comes into force on the day it is passed, which could be very swiftly. Judges will have to deal, under the provisions of Clause 10, with proceedings that...

I support what the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, has just said. We should not lose sight of the fact that the Bill comes into force on the day it is passed, which could be very swiftly. Judges will have to deal, under the provisions of Clause 10, with proceedings that...

moved Amendment No. 2A: 2A: Clause 3, page 2, line 26, leave out subsection (2) and insert— ““(1A) Where an application is made by the prosecutor, the prosecutor— (a) must (unless the court directs otherwise) inform the court of the identity of the witness, but (b) is not required to...

moved Amendment No. 2A: 2A: Clause 3, page 2, line 26, leave out subsection (2) and insert— ““(1A) Where an application is made by the prosecutor, the prosecutor— (a) must (unless the court directs otherwise) inform the court of the identity of the witness, but (b) is not required to...

moved Amendment No. 4A: 4A: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) Nothing in this section is to be taken as restricting any power to make rules of court.”” On Question, amendment agreed to.

moved Amendment No. 4A: 4A: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) Nothing in this section is to be taken as restricting any power to make rules of court.”” On Question, amendment agreed to.

I just hope that we will not have to discuss those matters again.

I just hope that we will not have to discuss those matters again.

It is scarcely surprising that we have strayed from the grouping. It is necessary to grasp at straws, such as the special counsel, in order to begin to make this legislation look fair to the defence. I do not want to sound churlish because my Amendment No. 2 effectively is...

It is scarcely surprising that we have strayed from the grouping. It is necessary to grasp at straws, such as the special counsel, in order to begin to make this legislation look fair to the defence. I do not want to sound churlish because my Amendment No. 2 effectively is...

I shall speak to Amendment No. 9. I think that I have already fully outlined the principles I wish to support, but I want to draw attention to the detail. My amendment would require that: "““The party applying for the witness anonymity order must disclose to the independent counsel all...

I shall speak to Amendment No. 9. I think that I have already fully outlined the principles I wish to support, but I want to draw attention to the detail. My amendment would require that: "““The party applying for the witness anonymity order must disclose to the independent counsel all...

I agree with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford. The basic sacrosanct principle is not of necessity the question of special counsel or any other special power given to the judge; it is that no judge should be expected to decide on such weighty measures without...

I agree with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford. The basic sacrosanct principle is not of necessity the question of special counsel or any other special power given to the judge; it is that no judge should be expected to decide on such weighty measures without...

moved Amendment No. 4B: 4B: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of considering an application for a witness anonymity order the court may appoint an independent counsel to assist the court, and, without limiting the directions that the court may make, the...

moved Amendment No. 4B: 4B: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of considering an application for a witness anonymity order the court may appoint an independent counsel to assist the court, and, without limiting the directions that the court may make, the...

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but I asked whether the Government, in failing to accept that anonymity should be granted only in exceptional cases, are not keeping to the agreement and are reneging on something that has already happened with witnesses, given that permission has been granted to...

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but I asked whether the Government, in failing to accept that anonymity should be granted only in exceptional cases, are not keeping to the agreement and are reneging on something that has already happened with witnesses, given that permission has been granted to...

No, that would not be a good reason, and I hope I can reassure the noble Baroness that that is not the case.

No, that would not be a good reason, and I hope I can reassure the noble Baroness that that is not the case.