Lords debate on motion to take note of the report from the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. (HL 284 2010-12). Agreed to on question. (Continuation of debate from 30 April 2012).

Lords debate on motion to take note of the report from the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. (HL 284 2010-12). Agreed to on question. (Continuation of debate from 30 April 2012).

My Lords, it is very difficult to follow the noble Lord, because he has given us a comprehensive demolition of the proposals in the draft Bill. It has been rather strange over recent weeks to listen to him speak on the Scotland Bill. He and I agree on very few...

My Lords, it is very difficult to follow the noble Lord, because he has given us a comprehensive demolition of the proposals in the draft Bill. It has been rather strange over recent weeks to listen to him speak on the Scotland Bill. He and I agree on very few...

My Lords, I do not think that the draft Bill is perfect, but I think it will be improved by the work of the Joint Committee. Pre-legislative scrutiny, which this House believes in, has been undertaken manfully and womanfully by the committee headed by the noble Lord, Lord Richard. However,...

My Lords, I do not think that the draft Bill is perfect, but I think it will be improved by the work of the Joint Committee. Pre-legislative scrutiny, which this House believes in, has been undertaken manfully and womanfully by the committee headed by the noble Lord, Lord Richard. However,...

My Lords, there has been no such deal.

My Lords, there has been no such deal.

My Lords, the procedures of this House are not currently in a state which would enable the Executive to impose the guillotine. Nor would that be the case in a House in which the political element would be smaller but selected in a different way. If I may, I would...

My Lords, the procedures of this House are not currently in a state which would enable the Executive to impose the guillotine. Nor would that be the case in a House in which the political element would be smaller but selected in a different way. If I may, I would...

Can my noble friend help me and perhaps explain how it would be that if we had this elected second Chamber, it would not suffer from the same problems of the other place in the domination of the Whips and the power of the Executive, given that it was elected?...

Can my noble friend help me and perhaps explain how it would be that if we had this elected second Chamber, it would not suffer from the same problems of the other place in the domination of the Whips and the power of the Executive, given that it was elected?...

That this House takes note of the report from the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. (HL Paper 284) That this House takes note of the report from the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. (HL Paper 284)

That this House takes note of the report from the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. (HL Paper 284) That this House takes note of the report from the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. (HL Paper 284)

Consistently in the new Parliament we have argued for a 100 per cent elected House.

Consistently in the new Parliament we have argued for a 100 per cent elected House.

My Lords, I, too, join other noble Lords in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Richard, on the work of the Joint Committee on scrutiny of this draft Bill for proposed House of Lords reform. Yet, coming at this Bill as I might as a surgeon preparing for major operation, I...

My Lords, I, too, join other noble Lords in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Richard, on the work of the Joint Committee on scrutiny of this draft Bill for proposed House of Lords reform. Yet, coming at this Bill as I might as a surgeon preparing for major operation, I...

My Lords, will the noble Lord concede that few if any Members of your Lordships’ House believe, as far as I am aware, that the current arrangements could continue for much longer? The question is not whether reform is needed but what kind.

My Lords, will the noble Lord concede that few if any Members of your Lordships’ House believe, as far as I am aware, that the current arrangements could continue for much longer? The question is not whether reform is needed but what kind.

Did I hear the noble Lord right? Did he say that the Attorney-General has made his position clear on the Parliament Act point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith? If so, it has passed me by. The Attorney-General was very specific...

Did I hear the noble Lord right? Did he say that the Attorney-General has made his position clear on the Parliament Act point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith? If so, it has passed me by. The Attorney-General was very specific...

My Lords, my congratulations go to all those who have sat through most of this debate and who were here at a quarter to one this morning. I remind your Lordships that this has been a take note debate on the report of the Joint Committee. I therefore hope that...

My Lords, my congratulations go to all those who have sat through most of this debate and who were here at a quarter to one this morning. I remind your Lordships that this has been a take note debate on the report of the Joint Committee. I therefore hope that...

Our position is very clear. If there is to be an elected House, it should be 100 per cent elected. Of course, we also believe that we have to sort out the powers issue, because the two go together. I come back to the issue of costs. I thought that...

Our position is very clear. If there is to be an elected House, it should be 100 per cent elected. Of course, we also believe that we have to sort out the powers issue, because the two go together. I come back to the issue of costs. I thought that...

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Andrews is right to say that this has been a fascinating debate. I, too, pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Richard, his committee and the clerks for the work that they have done. However, we are also indebted to those members of the...

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Andrews is right to say that this has been a fascinating debate. I, too, pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Richard, his committee and the clerks for the work that they have done. However, we are also indebted to those members of the...

My Lords, I rise to speak briefly in the gap and thank the House for allowing me the opportunity to do so. I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, for trumping her as the last speaker from the Joint Committee. Like others before me, I thank the noble Lord,...

My Lords, I rise to speak briefly in the gap and thank the House for allowing me the opportunity to do so. I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, for trumping her as the last speaker from the Joint Committee. Like others before me, I thank the noble Lord,...

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for reminding me of the heroic efforts that I, other noble Lords and Members of the other place made in producing that White Paper. However, that was work in progress. We tried to reach consensus. The problem we have is...

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for reminding me of the heroic efforts that I, other noble Lords and Members of the other place made in producing that White Paper. However, that was work in progress. We tried to reach consensus. The problem we have is...

My Lords, I would like to refer to the noble Lord’s work on this issue as we have been through so many of these discussions together. The 2008 White Paper on an elected second Chamber states: "““There is no reason why any further increase in the authority and effectiveness of...

My Lords, I would like to refer to the noble Lord’s work on this issue as we have been through so many of these discussions together. The 2008 White Paper on an elected second Chamber states: "““There is no reason why any further increase in the authority and effectiveness of...

I am very grateful to my noble friend. I have known him for many decades and I would never accuse him of naiveté, but I have been following his speech carefully. If the other House continues to automatically guillotine every piece of legislation, what is to prevent this House from...

I am very grateful to my noble friend. I have known him for many decades and I would never accuse him of naiveté, but I have been following his speech carefully. If the other House continues to automatically guillotine every piece of legislation, what is to prevent this House from...

My Lords, it is avoided precisely by the concept of the long mandate, which is non-renewable and with no right to go on to the House of Commons. That means that someone coming here would not be able to develop a political career and go forward to be a senior...

My Lords, it is avoided precisely by the concept of the long mandate, which is non-renewable and with no right to go on to the House of Commons. That means that someone coming here would not be able to develop a political career and go forward to be a senior...

My Lords, this has been a very powerful and forensic debate. It is a challenge to be the last Back-Bencher to speak, and the last to have had the privilege of serving on the Select Committee. I said rather casually at the beginning of the process that it was a...

My Lords, this has been a very powerful and forensic debate. It is a challenge to be the last Back-Bencher to speak, and the last to have had the privilege of serving on the Select Committee. I said rather casually at the beginning of the process that it was a...