Proceeding contribution from Lord Deben (Conservative) in the House of Commons on Wednesday, 6 July 2005. It occurred during Debate on bill on Finance Bill.
Finance Bill
That is not only true but self-evident. I do not wish to go down that line, but I do notice that whenever one talks about the importance of the family, of stability, of passing on what one generation has worked hard for, not a grimace but an expression of laughter appears on the faces of particular Labour Members. They laugh because they do not really understand what it is that has kept the nation stable over the generations, and which also motivates most people. Anyone of my age who asks their friends why they are still working will discover that they are doing so because they believe that it is contributing to the continuity of their family and to the well-being of the children and grandchildren whom they care about. A state that does not take that into account is very mistaken. This issue is important in the context of the new clause, and for two fundamental reasons. First, let us consider a situation in which someone has sought properly and in reasonable terms to make their affairs as least taxable as is proper within the regime, but who then finds that although they have done nothing illegal—indeed, the courts supported their action—they are penalised according to the vague view that everybody ought to pay as much tax as they possibly can, rather than as little as they are legally liable to pay. Such a situation undermines people’s respect for the tax system. Asking people to find new ways in which to make themselves taxable does not constitute a proper tax system. A proper tax system recognises that although people have to pay the tax for which they are liable—they might choose to vote for a party that reduces tax—they should have no reason at all to fear that if they arrange their affairs so that, perfectly properly and legally, they pay less tax than if they had arranged them otherwise, they will be penalised, including retrospectively. I do not want to discuss retrospectivity, but I should point out that I realise that the Paymaster General, whose definition of retrospectivity is wrong in both dictionary and moral terms, does not want to turn retrospectivity into a punishment in this regard. I turn to the second and equally important issue. If people feel that they are no longer being treated fairly by the tax system, those who have always been law abiding will be less so. The fairness of a system is crucial to widespread support for it, and to objections against those who break the law. I offer a direct comparison. It is much easier to get the sympathy of one’s neighbours if one drives a motor car at 32 mph in a 30 mph limit in the middle of the night than if one drives over the drink limit. The reason why is that everybody recognises—indeed, there has been a very good bipartisan campaign—that drinking and driving is dangerous and unacceptable socially. Therefore, peer pressure is very strong and properly so, particularly and noticeably among young people. If one breaks the speed limit in the circumstance that I described, people tend to feel, ““Well, it was the middle of the night and nobody was around.”” Such an act is certainly illegal, and of course the law has to obeyed and applied. But my point is that once there is a feeling of unfairness, the social and peer pressures reduce. I want a tax system that is so clear, obvious and open that people believe that—whether or not they like the tax, the Government or the Paymaster General—they ought to pay it. That seems to me to be right. If they want that system changed, they should find, through the democratic system, somebody who is prepared to change it. The Paymaster General has presided over such a complication of the tax system that ordinary people with limited resources must now take legal and tax advice in a way that they never had to before. I have said what I am about to say before, and I will go on saying it. I hope that the Paymaster General will accept it, as it is not a personal comment, but she has been in the Treasury team for a long time. Under the tax system that we now have, ordinary people who own a house that has risen in value and who earn income from more that one source need technical advice that their predecessors in history never needed. The right hon. Lady must put that and some other problems right. Above all, she must try to make things simpler. That would be very good for the nation, but very bad for accountants. One of the lesser purposes of this House is to make life difficult for accountants. If she can do that with this measure—and at the same time ensure that lawyers also have less work—I should be very pleased.
Secondary information
- Type
- Proceeding contribution
- Reference
- 436 c351-2
- Session
- 2005-06
- Chamber / Committee
- House of Commons chamber
- Subjects
- Children Debts Land Insurance companies Law Excise duties Freight Fuels Inheritance tax Double taxation Investment trusts Oil Property transfer Reform Tax avoidance Taxation VAT Trusts Rural areas Stamp duty land tax Sunset clauses
- Legislation
- Finance Bill 2005-06
- Link
- View this Proceeding contribution on www.publications.parliament.uk
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