---

Terrorism Bill

My Lords, we on the Front Bench of the Conservative Party have made no attacks on the police. That issue has been raised by a number of noble Lords. Many of us feel that, although it is perfectly legitimate for the police to argue their case, as was made clear by the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, and others, it was possibly a step too far for them to get into active lobbying on the issue. I add the practical point that the Government might also recognise that the lobbying did not have the effect that they wanted, in that the vote in the Commons went the other way. Many people felt that the lobbying by the police was, as, I think, the noble Baroness put it, a step too far and took us slightly beyond what the police ought to do. There has been no criticism of the police from our Front Bench in either this House or another place. I turn briefly to Clauses 2 and 3 and the effect that they may have on universities and libraries. That has been dealt with in much greater detail by many of those with much greater expertise than me—my noble friend Lady Carnegy, the noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, who is chief executive of Universities UK, the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, as chairman of the British Library, and the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Crosby. I hope that it is not the case, as, I think, was suggested by the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, that the Association of Librarians was not offered proper consultation with either the Home Office or the Home Secretary. It now seems that, only this afternoon, the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, had a meeting with the Home Secretary. We all listened carefully to what the noble Lord said and wondered how those points were to be dealt with by the Minister but, at the end of his interesting speech, we were assured that the Home Secretary had dealt with them all and said that they were all matters that should be considered. That raises a slightly wider question: was the Bill as well thought-out as it ought to have been if something of that sort crept in that needed rectification at this late stage? However, we are grateful that, at least, the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, as chairman of the British Library, managed to obtain an audience with the Home Secretary. It just seems a pity that some others did not receive any consultation with the Home Office earlier. I could go on, but we now want to hear the Minister deal with the Bill. I end by saying that, as I made clear at the beginning, although we support the basic thrust of the Bill as it now is, we will certainly seek amendment and a number of days in Committee—I am sure that the Government will be co-operative on that—to ensure that the Bill is properly scrutinised in the manner that this House normally manages.