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Terrorism Bill

We are engaging in a lot of guesswork. As a lawyer, all my professional life I have been involved in civil liberties. At one time, I was very active in the National Council for Civil Liberties. I remain of that point of view. But we are facing a novel threat—a threat that we have not faced before. Someone prayed in aid the situation before and during the war but, in my view, that was quite different. When I came to this debate, I was not sure whether I would support 60 days or 90 days. I confess that like everyone else I am engaging in a certain amount of guesswork. On the other hand, the protection that is afforded invigilation by senior members of the judiciary is quite different. We have never experienced such a situation before and it should not be underestimated. They are not idiots; they are trained people who care about civil liberties. We have seen that in recent days, when the judiciary stood up to be counted. Therefore, in my view, what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Imbert, and others should be taken into account. Very few terrorists will be subject to imprisonment for three months—maybe one or two. At all times, the opinions of members of the senior judiciary have to be sought every seven days, which is a valuable protection. But we are struggling with the unknown. We simply do not know what is better, 28, 60 or 90 days. The protection that is built into that is of inestimable importance. Of course, we have to apply a balance. We are called upon to do a very difficult thing, but the dilemma that has been posed by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Fraser—a friend of mine of many years—is unreal. I do not think that this country should be compared with South Africa, particularly with apartheid South Africa. It is quite different. I simply cannot accept the view put by my noble friend Lord Ahmed that the Muslim community is being put at particular risk. I do not believe that and I would not support that. I believe that their civil liberties are as important as anyone else’s. When it comes to an inspired guess, it is better to go for 90 days rather than 28.