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Government of Wales Bill

I hear what the hon. Gentleman says. I do not regard the measure as the introduction of primary legislative powers by the back door. I do not support primary legislative powers for the Assembly. There has been an incremental process since the establishment of the National Assembly for Wales; for example, the introduction of Joint Committees, to which I referred. The Opposition did not at that stage call for a referendum. With respect to them, it is not possible for us to call for a referendum at each stage when procedures change. The correct time for a referendum to take place is when primary legislative powers are passed, if ever, to the Assembly. The present position is that the ultimate decisions will remain in this place. As long as that remains so, there is no need for a referendum.