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Terrorism Bill

My Lords, to use a word much favoured by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, I shall be telegraphic in putting the Government’s argument. I see no point in prolonging a debate which we have had on two, if not three, occasions. As ever, we are grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, for tabling these amendments because they enable us to get to the point of the issue. We do not have a lot more to add to comments made from these Benches on Report. I will, however, deal with Amendments Nos. 4, 5 and 10, and then Amendments Nos. 6 to 8. As the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, has expertly explained, Amendments Nos. 4, 5 and 10 insert a measure of judicial oversight into the notice provisions on the Internet in Clause 3. I understand that this has been principally argued for by the Opposition because they believe that the effect of a notice, when served on an Internet service provider, will be to force it to comply. The Government believe that this is incorrect, and that judicial oversight is unnecessary. First, we do not think that the effect of the notices will be to oblige Internet service providers to comply in all cases. This is the case not just because of the effect of such compliance on their customers and brand reputation, but also because the principal mischief this clause is aimed at is that of those who run websites—the webmasters—not Internet service providers. We expect very few notices to be served on Internet service providers. Secondly—as the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, conceded on Report—the amendment is not even desired by the UK Internet industry. UK Internet service providers want a process similar to those already in operation for communications data. They want a single point of contact between them and the prosecuting authorities, and clear guidance on what, how and when to deal with notices when received. That is exactly what we aim to deliver. Thirdly, the inclusion of ““intent and recklessness”” in Clauses 1 and 2, while not directly dealing with notices, makes it far more likely that an Internet service provider—or, indeed, a webmaster—will take issue with the serving of a notice, and refuse. More importantly, we are also worried that the insertion of ““judicial involvement,”” proposed by this amendment, will prove unnecessarily burdensome, especially as the Amendment requires a senior judicial level of involvement; that is, the involvement of a High Court judge.