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Terrorism Bill

moved Amendment No. 12:"Page 9, line 28, at end insert—" ““(   )   In proceedings against a person for an offence under this section it is a defence for him to show that he had at no time while attending at that place intended to further any of the purposes specified in subsection (1)(c) or to assist other persons to further such purposes.”” The noble Lord said: My Lords, Amendment No. 12 raises a freedom of speech issue. It seeks to amend Clause 8. Under Clause 8, attendance at a terrorist training camp is an offence whatever the defendant’s motive for being there. Furthermore, it is an offence which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years, so it is very serious. The offence applies to attendance at a camp anywhere in the world and whether or not the terrorism involved is directed against targets in the United Kingdom. There could be a number of reasons for attendance at a terrorist training camp without having any intention to further terrorism, but I want to concentrate on one which I think is the most important of these—the effect that it will have on journalism. It is surely a matter of public interest and, indeed, of very great importance to understand terrorism in all its different aspects. That has become increasingly clear in recent years since we have been threatened by and, indeed, have suffered terrorism in our own country, as we have done for many years. It is important to understand the objectives of the terrorists and how they plan to attain those objectives. Clause 8, as it now stands, would seriously hinder this. It would prevent a journalist from going to the camp under cover in order to report to the world what is going on. Furthermore, and perhaps even more important, it would prevent a journalist from openly—and with the knowledge and consent of those who are running it—visiting a training camp in, let us say, Chechnya or Sri Lanka, where the terrorism is not directed against the United Kingdom. Clause 8 would, I believe, seriously undermine investigative journalism. That is also the view of John Simpson, one of our most important, experienced and respected reporters. In a long article in the Sunday Telegraph on 15 January, he said:"““Everyone who saw Peter Taylor’s meticulous series on al-Qaeda recently on BBC television will remember how valuable it was in explaining the thinking behind the violent threat to our society and values. It was an important piece of work, thoroughly in the public interest. Yet already, according to Taylor’s executive producer, Fiona Stourton, Clause 8 of the Terrorism Bill is making the investigation of their next series on al-Qaeda extremely difficult””." This is, of course, hearsay, but it is hearsay that comes from somebody who is in a far better position than I am—and probably than any other Member of your Lordships’ House is—to form a judgment on these issues. Furthermore, I believe that Clause 8 is plainly incompatible with Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights. To be compatible, the absolute restriction in Clause 8 would have to come within one of the permitted restrictions under Article 10.2. Is Clause 8, as it stands,"““necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security””?" In its full strength, it is plainly not. Is it necessary in the interests of,"““territorial integrity or public safety””?" Again, I believe not. On Report, the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland, said that the proper thing for any journalist to do when they ascertain that a place that they are visiting is a terrorist training camp,"““is to leave and to notify the . . . authorities””.—[Official Report, 17/1/06; col. 650.]" That would presumably be, for example, an obligation to go straight to notify the authorities in Russia—an obligation that is hardly likely to get the journalist into the camp or, if they get in, to get them out of it. It seems to me that this shows a total lack of understanding of the role and ethics of journalism. We have gone some way towards meeting the Government’s objections. The burden will be on the defendant to prove a defence on the balance of probabilities; the burden will not be merely evidential, as we proposed in our earlier amendments on the subject. However, the provision is plainly, I believe, a serious danger to freedom of speech. Moreover, it is a danger whose removal would, I think, offer no threat at all to the security of this country. It is important to allow people to make a case to explain why they were at the terrorist camp and to show that they were there for purposes that are in no way connected with the furtherance of terrorism. This is something on which I would certainly wish to insist; I hope that your Lordships’ House will have the same view. I beg to move.