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Armed Forces Bill

Amendments Nos. 15 and 16 limit the offence of looting from a person to personal property, including personal protection equipment. I believe the reason behind this is to make clear that in some cases military equipment may be taken. I believe, however, that it is already clear, as the offence is committed only if property is taken without lawful excuse. Amendment No. 17 would add to subsection (4) that a lawful excuse includes taking property for the public service. This is already provided by subsection (3) in relation to military equipment. The amendment would apply the defence to taking even the personal property of the dead and wounded. In my view that would not be appropriate. The wording of Amendment No. 18, which creates a new offence, suggests to me that the noble Earl has drawn his idea from the offence under the Bill of failing to prevent or suppress a mutiny. However, that offence is exceptional. There has long been an offence of failure to prevent or suppress mutiny because of the enormous potential effects that that might have and the need to ensure that the personnel of any rank, without specific orders, would do all they could reasonably do to prevent or suppress it. Such extra obligations are, however, not generally imposed. For offences apart from mutiny, we think the existing provisions are sufficient. Those include disciplinary offences, such as neglect of duty and conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline, as well as criminal offences, such as aiding and abetting crimes. I hope the noble Earl accepts this view and feels able to withdraw his amendment.