---

Armed Forces Bill

We had a meeting earlier in the year about the whole area of the rules of engagement and a briefing on the subject. If it would be helpful for noble Lords to have a further meeting and discussions, I would be more than happy to have them. I recognise the complexity of the area but I sincerely believe, having listened to the arguments from across the Committee, and again from the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, that there is a fundamental misunderstanding. Perhaps this misunderstanding comes from the fact that the rules of engagement are confidential and we are not in a position to go through the detail of them with noble Lords. In response to what the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, has just said, I reiterate that it is not just a question of whether the individual soldier has operated in compliance with the rules of engagement; it is still up to the individual how he carries out the task. That individual responsibility cannot be overridden by the operational orders and operational framework as described in the rules of engagement. Does the noble Lord accept the point—which I have, perhaps, laboured—that the purpose of the rules of engagement is primarily to enable our commanders to operate effectively in the field? We must make sure that in our wish to provide a framework to strengthen the defence for our Armed Forces personnel we do not prejudice the whole purpose of the operation and of the rules of engagement. I would be interested to know whether the noble Lord accepts that point.