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Counter-Terrorism Bill

moved Amendment No. 5: 5: Clause 1, page 2, line 19, leave out subsection (4) The noble Baroness said: In the interests of clear legislation, I shall read subsection (4), on page 2, which states: "““Where a document is removed under this section a constable has the same powers of seizure as if it had not been removed and any matters discovered on examination after removal had been discovered before its removal””." I am sure that we could spend a lot of interesting time trying to unravel that, but I am afraid that legislation should at least be clear. If it is not clear to the people who are making it, it will be very unclear to people subsequently. I had no idea how to amend it because I was not quite sure what it meant, so let me go on to discuss what this subsection is about. Once the material has been discovered, what happens to it on examination? This subsection seems to be trying to say that any matter discovered should be treated as though it had been discovered in the initial search. Does this mean that if a computer file is decrypted and the police discover that it relates to a non-terrorist-related offence, they can act on that—they do not have the offence before them but suddenly out of the woodwork comes the fact that another offence is being created—or do they simply have to pretend that they never saw it: this material that they have coughed up in the process of a search for terrorism and which actually relates very much to someone who has conducted a crime of drugs elsewhere? What do they do with that information? Do they hold on to it and say, ““There is a Chinese wall down here, so I can’t see it””, or are they entitled to put it into the hands of those who might be investigating the other complaint? If they can act on it, we have the possibility of terrorist legislation again being used inappropriately and not for the matters on which it has been enacted. If they cannot act on it in that way, we are asking officers, who otherwise may have a wide duty, to forget what they have just seen and do nothing more about it. These provisions set up a precedent of allowing exceptional legislation for terrorism which in a few years the Government could argue should be extended to other offences. There are many offences involving evidence which is encrypted or in a foreign language—we all know about the child pornography pictures, trafficking and so on—but this legislation is about terrorism. Nowadays there is a nasty habit of people forgetting where legislation starts. It sort of creeps under the door like a flood and is used elsewhere. The Minister may want to look at Clause 1(4). Although I have drawn his attention to it with some amusement, it is undoubtedly some of the most incomprehensible legislation I have read. Having, I hope, unravelled what it is about, perhaps the Minister would be kind enough to tell me more about these Chinese walls. I beg to move.