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Counter-Terrorism Bill

It is not for me to accept the evidence; it is for the Government, when they make a statement saying that the threat has increased, to give the evidence that it has, and they have not given any for me to accept or not accept. It is all right for noble Lords to witter on over there saying that they disagree with me—I know that they do—but I am telling the Committee what we heard in the Joint Committee on Human Rights, and all of us in the Joint Committee will agree with that. I come to the matter of parliamentary scrutiny. It is worth reading out what tests have to be applied. They are, "““to obtain relevant evidence, whether by questioning him or otherwise … to preserve relevant evidence, or … pending the result of an examination or analysis of any such evidence or of anything the examination or analysis of which is to be or is being carried out with a view to obtaining such evidence ... to obtain, whether by questioning or otherwise, evidence””." Those are all questions that have to be asked by a court and by judges. They cannot be debated in Parliament because the moment they are, there will be interference in the due process of law when the chap comes up for trial. The result will be not a conviction but the release of someone because of interference by Parliament. Is that what the noble Lord wants? It is not what I want. I want the person who is guilty of an offence to be charged, locked up and sent away for a long time. That is right and proper, and it is the way that I hope we do things in this country.