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Energy Bill

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to respond to such a lively debate. I am sure that we are all jolly grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Montgomery, for allowing us to discuss this at some length this afternoon. I also welcome my noble friend Lord Jones of Birmingham, and am very proud to call him my noble friend. He must be enormously relieved not to have the burdens of office and no doubt feels free to speak on many important matters from the Cross Benches. We look forward to that. I pay tribute to him for the outstanding work he did for the Government as an ambassador for the UK and for the great and wonderful city of Birmingham. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Rogan, that I think this is a perfectly appropriate use of parliamentary procedures. I admire the ingenuity of the amendment’s supporters for the way in which they brought their case to your Lordships’ attention. I suspect that if I survive even a year—which, as the noble Lord suggested, seems to be the average length of stay—I will have many more opportunities to debate this matter in the months ahead. The noble Lord, Lord Rogan, talked about Churchill’s reference to the ““sluggish inertia”” of the minds of those who opposed this proposal. I recognise that. What Eskimos do in the winter was mentioned, which enlivened all of us, although, thinking about the relationship between Eskimos and climate change, I suspect that there is a salutatory point to be made about the huge impact that climate change will have on our society and on many other societies in the years ahead. That brings us back to the importance not just of this Bill but of the Climate Change Bill. It shows how this discussion is an important part of a general debate about where we are going with energy use. I fully accept that this has been a serious debate. My noble friend Lady Billingham pointed out that the UK experiment with daylight saving in 1968 to 1971 is now some 40 years ago. She is right, but I do not think that we can just ignore what happened then. It is worth making the point that an experiment was conducted over three years, after which Parliament voted decisively—by 366 votes to 81—to return to the current arrangements. I appreciate that time has moved on and that the focus on energy saving and climate change has shifted, so the matter is understandably being raised again and should be given the attention and consideration it deserves. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Rogan, and my noble friend Lord Hoyle that I am aware of the Cambridge University report, which concluded that if time in the UK were set at GMT plus one, there would be a reduction of 2 per cent in UK electricity consumption, which is of course significant. However, the Cambridge study does not cover other forms of energy such as heat and transport. The study therefore covers only part of the picture. I say to my noble friend Lord Hoyle that we will of course continue to look at relevant studies. If other research comes forward that suggests that there is persuasive evidence in this area, of course, my department and the Government will consider it. Other noble Lords mentioned the Building Research Establishment work for my other department, Defra, in 2005, which indicated that putting clocks forward an additional hour in winter and summer would lead to increased energy consumption in UK buildings for lighting, space heating and cooling, with consequent increases in carbon emissions. All I say on that is that a number of factors must be considered in relation to research before one can come to a definitive view. I am advised that numerous other studies have failed to show with any authoritative statistical evidence that any energy savings in the practical experiments undertaken in other countries would be likely to translate into carbon savings as a result from a change in time zone. I should have thought that, on such a significant issue, the evidence must be overwhelming. The noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy, said that there was nothing wrong with the amendment, although clearly she has some doubts about whether we should move to daylight saving. The noble Lord, Lord Monson, put his finger on it: the amendment requires in primary legislation that the Government report on the matter annually. One ought to point out that, in the main, your Lordships' House is cautious about putting more responsibilities on government, especially in issuing reports on matters on which there is no guarantee that any action is to be taken. Although on the face of it this is a mild amendment that simply asks the Government to make a regular report, one needs to be very careful before one commits us to do that. European time zones have been amply covered. As the noble Lord, Lord Monson, says, due to its very happy expansion, which this country has championed for a number of years, the European Union now covers three different time zones, so unity of time is no longer possible in it. There is an argument about road safety. It is a great pleasure to hear my noble friend Lady Gibson speak on behalf of RoSPA, an organisation for which I have considerable admiration, not least as its headquarters are in Birmingham. As Health and Safety Minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, I had a great deal to do with RoSPA and greatly appreciate all the work that it does. If it were shown that the number of deaths and serious injuries on roads could be reduced, that would be taken seriously. However, although light may be a factor, I understand that research models do not take account of other factors such as traffic volume and weather conditions. When comparing casualty rates at different times of the day and year in 2006, apparently there was surprising little difference in data between the summer and winter months. I am happy for further information to be shared between the Government and RoSPA on this important matter, and I hope my noble friend will accept that this is a genuine offer of a discussion. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe of Aberavon, made very entertaining remarks about daylight saving and his experience in the cinemas of Russia and central Asia. Surely it is one of the great strengths of the Union that we consider the interests of Scottish farmers and the people who live in the north of Scotland. We should not shy away from that. It is part of the cultural integrity of the United Kingdom that we consider them. I am proud of that; we should not run away from it. In any consideration of daylight saving, one has to consider the points of view expressed by postal workers and the potential increase in the risk of accidents, caused by the darker mornings, involving a wide range of people who are active during those hours. This matter has been discussed on a number of occasions in the past 30 years, but in no sense could it be said that there is an emerging consensus. These matters should be kept under review, and the Government will continue to keep them under review, but I hesitate to recommend to your Lordships that they should support an amendment that requires an annual report to Parliament. On that basis, I invite the noble Viscount not to press his amendment to a vote.