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Postal Services Bill [HL]

My Lords, how interesting those last few moments have been. Let us go back to the beginning, when the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, made it absolutely clear that we are discussing a Conservative Party policy. I am delighted that he still shows the same clear insight into the problem that he did in Committee. It is to his credit and that of the party he serves that they know what they are about; I wish that I could say the same for ours. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is looking for a guarantee of no U-turns. I do not know about those, but sometimes if you can make an argument that is better than the cobbled-together idea of selling off a valuable asset, it should be examined. In the past few moments, we heard that last week the Prime Minister said that there was no alternative. That was before today’s amendments. There we are; it is a closed mind and no doubt we have heard, "There is no alternative". People have said that in the past. It was known as "TINA" at the time: There Is No Alternative. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, understands the attitude of people and the feelings of private shareholders. As always, the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, is straight to the point and does not go round China to get to Chatham. He came straight out with it and gave us a little telling-off for making Second Reading speeches. When a number of amendments are grouped together like this, it is not possible to stick to one avenue of argument. The noble Lord said something that resonated with me as an old working-class socialist. He said that he does not think that we should be bullied. He also wants two commitments from the Government as we go through the rest of the Bill. I wish him the very best of luck. If they find favour with me, I will troop through the Lobby with anyone who seeks to protect our wonderful, valuable Post Office. My noble friend Lord Hoyle gave voice to the problems of TNT once again and spoke about the clarification of the £3 billion. Throughout five days of Committee, Second Reading and today, we still do not know what they are talking about in terms of the money that they need. We know that what has been suggested was a sale to TNT, if the newspapers are correct; but I do not believe much in them anyway. My noble friend talked about the siren voices of the Opposition. That is what they are there for. That is their policy. You cannot blame the siren voice of someone seeing an opportunity to get their policy on the back of a Labour Government’s proposal. My noble friend Lord Christopher addressed the ownership question in his amendments towards the end of the group. He asked whether British people would stand for poorer deliveries. They have stood for them since the 2000 Act, haven’t they? Who gets their mail at a reasonable time these days? Who gets their mail before they go to work? That does not happen any more. Under these proposals, if the Dutch operator comes in, it will be even later. We have heard a lot about dates and today, 11 May, I give noble Lords another forecast, which I made seven years ago. Mark my words, if this goes through, postal deliveries will get worse, they will be later and there will be erosion of the service that we provide, whether on collections, distribution or delivery. My noble friend also mentioned modernisation. I did not mention the CWU/Royal Mail modernisation agreement. I will put it on the record, since it has been mentioned in the debate, that 50,000 jobs have gone since the infamous Postal Services Act 2000. In the past few moments, we heard again about inefficient management, where we will have to bring people in who have expertise. Expertise in what—sacking more people? The modernisation agreement has already penetrated more than 90 per cent of the whole of the operations of Royal Mail. To listen to some people today, you would think that Royal Mail has failed miserably. There are still more than two years of that agreement to run. I do not know whether it is too long an agreement, or whether it should have been shorter. I did not negotiate it, but the people who did so did a good job, and they honoured it. As my noble friend Lord Christopher said, 50,000 jobs disappeared—that is 50,000 duties and posts, but only one compulsory redundancy. Does that smack of obduracy, obstruction and difficulties? Or does it say that there was common-sense working to get this agreement through in various places? I am the first to admit that there are some areas where it is difficult for people to vote to lose their own jobs or to change their own jobs. That is not easy. My noble friend Lord Christopher also mentioned differences in the European Union. I said so much in Committee to prove that this country of ours has a postal service as good as you will get anywhere, especially for the price. That is often forgotten. This is the cheapest country in Europe for post at the basic rate or the first step up. Some of the competitors that we hear about already have a monopoly for those letters posted at the basic rate. The Secretary of State said that private companies are faced with these different proposals. He said that he would not be drawn on the references to TNT, but why not? Are the British people not entitled to know that that firm has a rotten record of industrial relations, a rotten record of increasing its postage and a record of reducing its service? Are the British people not entitled to know that that is the company some people want to get into bed with? It is not good enough and we should be able to say it. Later on someone mentioned one ardent critic—surely that is not referring to me. I do not suppose that TNT is worried about an ex-postman from Hampstead. It is more worried about the money that it will invest and the returns that it will get when it starts stripping the company that it wants to get hold of. We did not receive a clear answer on GLS focus. The Government should tell us clearly that GLS, as a profitable parcel service that is serving Europe, with the possibility of expansion and greater profitability, should be a no-go area for any sale that might take place. It is not good enough to come here and say that we will be focused. It makes me very cross. The global recession was mentioned. Hooper started in 2003 and in 2002 I was telling the Government that the main problem was the loss of revenue due to the unfair and biased regulator, which thankfully, later in the Bill, is being replaced by Ofcom. Not before time, Postcomm will get its marching orders, although not before the £100 million a year lost by the Post Office in the past 10 years on top of the money that had to be paid into the pension scheme. It is easier to talk about pensions and regulations in the abstract. As a former trustee of the Royal Mail and Post Office BT schemes, I know exactly why the Government have the responsibility for any deficit. It is quite clear that the regulation that allowed them to take a pensions holiday for all those years was the same regulation that allowed them to suspend payments because they would be responsible for the deficit. I remember going to the lawyers on behalf of my colleagues to say that it was unfair. We were still paying 6 per cent of every member's money into a pension scheme and the employers were doing nothing. We are told that the Government did not have the courage, but what courage is needed to renege on a conference decision? You just cock a snoot to those people who diligently went along to the policy forum of the party and sat down and argued the case at what is known as the Warwick agreement and understood that there would be a wholly publicly owned Post Office. It does not need courage. We talked about bringing in other expertise, but I could rattle off a list of names of decent people who were got rid of by the Post Office—people such as Brian Thompson, Jerry Cope and Brian Roberts. They could not manage because political interference at the time would not allow them to manage as some people would have wanted them to. There were people who could have solved these problems and it is not good enough to blame union agreements and obduracy in a couple of areas for all the problems. I am shocked that the Prime Minister could say last week that he rejects any alternative when there is a sensible alternative, although not necessarily mine. We will find out in a few moments whether it has any support. Certainly, my noble friend Lord Christopher has spent hours trying to understand how we can get out of this impasse—the Government have painted themselves into a corner. I have no pleasure in saying that I will divide this House, and I may be the only one. I think we have to have two.