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Debate on bill on Monday, 11 May 2009, in the House of Lords.

Postal Services Bill [HL]

Postal Services Bill (HL). Lords Report stage first day. New clause (Amendment 1) disagreed to on division (25 votes to 228). New clauses (Amendments 3, 15 and 67) debated and withdrawn. Amendment 18 to Clause 10 disagreed to on division (59 votes to 131). New clauses (Amendments 22 and 23) agreed to on question. New clause (Amendment 63) not moved. Bill as amended, ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 44 2008-09).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
710 c819-60, 903-14 
Session
2008-09
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Legislative stage
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Postal Services Bill (HL). As amended on Report.
Monday, 11 May 2009
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c872 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 43 43: Clause 17, leave out Clause 17
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c872-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall just check the groupings list as there has been a change. I believe that Amendment...
Show all contributions (111)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c874-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by expressing some difficulty: I thought that we were going to have a revised grou...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c878 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 50 50: Clause 19, page 10, line 8, leave out subsections (4) and (5)
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c878 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am suitably reassured and I happily withdraw the amendment. Amendment 47 withdrawn. Cl...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c878 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 50 is in two parts. The first was an issue discussed in Committee in relation to...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c876 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 47 47: Clause 18, page 9, line 38, at end insert— "(4) No order may be made under this se...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c875-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as I said, I will withdraw it. The grouping of these amendments has not only confused the ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c877-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can give my noble friend the assurance that he seeks and we do not need to change the wo...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c876-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 47 deals with the protection of members’ rights under the RMPP. As we have said ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c880 (Link to this contribution) Clause 21: Restriction on power to transfer assets Amendment 55 55: Clause 21, page 11, line 7, at...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c878-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as my noble friend Lord Clarke has explained, this group of amendments is also focused on ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c880 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for the example he has just given. The last thing I want ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c885 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had no doubt my noble friend would say that. I was going to say quite a lot more about s...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c885 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the intention is that the Government will appoint a suitably qualified person and also tha...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c884-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before my noble friend sits down, can I get something clarified? Obviously, I am happy wit...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c883-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall start with one or two immediate responses to my noble friend. He said that the ter...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c912-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in speaking to Amendment 68, I shall speak also to Amendments 69 and 70 standing in the na...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c912 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 9: Transitional provisions for Part 3 Amendment 68 68: Schedule 9, page 77, line 26, leav...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c914 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 69 and 70 69: Schedule 9, page 77, line 42, at end insert— "Power to extend operation of...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c909-10 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 67 follows on directly from amendments tabled in Committee by the noble Lord, Lo...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c911-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his carefully considered reply but he gives me...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c910-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, puts his case always with such reasonableness that it makes it ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c885-6 (Link to this contribution) Clause 29: The universal post service Amendment 58 58: Clause 29, page 14, line 32, at end insert—...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c887-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my response to the noble Lord will probably test my powers of persuasion. It is quite a ch...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c886-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these amendments are similar to ones I tabled in Committee and make very much the same poi...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 710 c903 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 59 59: Clause 29, page 14, line 36, at end insert— "( ) In carrying out its assessment, O...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c889-90 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response, but I hope that when he reads it...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 710 c903-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in raising this and the subsequent amendment standing in my name, I wish to ensure that we...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c904 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont, for tabling these amendments. It would be ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c904-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Government’s first priority is to secure the provision of a strong universal postal se...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 710 c905 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, for his support. The amendment was drafted solely ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c906 (Link to this contribution) Clause 40: Sharing of burden of universal service obligations Amendment 62 62: Clause 40, page 23,...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c906-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 62 aims to apply the affirmative resolution procedure to any further regulations...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c906 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I make no apology for returning to this issue at this stage. We have strong feelings about...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 710 c908 (Link to this contribution) Clause 46: Provision that may be made by consumer protection conditions Amendment 64 64: Clause 46...
Lord Razzall | 710 c907 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when I responded to the Minister’s remarks on Amendment 3, with which Amendment 63 was gro...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c907 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hasten to the Dispatch Box to say that one reason we have made such reasonable progress ...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 710 c909 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if we want consumers to have confidence in any evolving service, we should be ensuring tha...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c909 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 67 67: After Clause 49, insert the following new Clause— "Appeal against non price contro...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 710 c908 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in dealing with this and the following two amendments together, I should point out that wh...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c908-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 64, 65 and 66 seek to replace the word "may" with "must" in three parts of Clau...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c862-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I had been quicker into the Chamber for the last one I would have got up and welcomed t...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c862 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 33 33: Clause 15, page 8, line 11, at end insert— "(4) For the purposes of sections 16 an...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c861-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Government are proposing this amendment in response to an amendment tabled by my noble...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c865-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the new public scheme, dealt with in Amendments 34 and 35, should be a public service pens...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c864 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend has made a good fist of trying to justify something that is pretty hard to...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c863-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in response to the points raised by my noble friend Lord Clarke, the Government cannot acc...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c867 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, more than a flavour. The record of this short debate should make clear what Clause 16(4) a...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c866-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in responding to the points raised in my noble friend’s speech, I will begin by addressing...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c867 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 35 35: Clause 16, page 8, line 40, at end insert— "(8) Before making any order under this...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c868-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in responding to this amendment, I should like once again to address some of the concerns ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c867-8 (Link to this contribution) The wording of this amendment is taken from Sections 1 and 2 of the Superannuation Act 1972. These r...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c870 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps my noble friend will permit me to intervene—I am conscious that we are on Report a...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c870 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps noble Lords can think back to just over an hour ago when there was an accusation o...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c870-1 (Link to this contribution) Clause 17:Division of the RMPP into different sections Amendment 36 36: Clause 17, page 9, line 4,...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c870 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that further elucidation. However, I hark back to the...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c872 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for tabling these amendments in response to our concerns about what w...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c871-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to the other government amendments in this group. The Government are p...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c872 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 37 to 42 37: Clause 17, page 9, line 5, after "provision" insert "in respect of a qualif...
Lord Christopher | 710 c829-32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it may be convenient if I speak to Amendments 91 and 92. My noble friend described them as...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c832-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Christopher for his references to my grandfather. Indeed I ha...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c828 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is right. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, had sat down. A short question of clarification ...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c828-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am a little puzzled by that. I listened to my noble friend Lord Clarke making what I tho...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c839-40 (Link to this contribution) Does anybody want to volunteer with my noble friend Lord Hoyle and me, my Lords? I shall be proud to...
Lord Razzall | 710 c842 (Link to this contribution) Clause 2: Meaning of "Post Office company" Amendment 2 not moved. Amendment 3 3: After Clause 2, ...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c842-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, without going into what we discussed previously, I agree with the amendment. Anything that...
Lord Razzall | 710 c842 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 63 in this group. I apologise somewhat to the House for ta...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c844-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, for his amendment. It represents a real step towards...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c845-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord’s Government had a record of closing post offices, but the House has heard ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c846 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not think that the noble Lord’s noble friend has said there will be no more closures....
Lord Mandelson | 710 c846-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall respond first to the noble Baroness, Lady Byford. The Government announced in Nove...
Lord Razzall | 710 c849-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the assurances that the Secretary of State has given me on Amendment 3 certainly satisfy m...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c850 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 15 15: After Clause 9, insert the following new Clause— "Reporting provisions Report on p...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c851-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment looks to introduce requirements for Government to report to the House on th...
Baroness Byford | 710 c843-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak briefly on Amendment 24, to which my noble friend will respond shortly. I apo...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c853 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Secretary of State sits down, he made a generalisation about political interfer...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c854 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Schedule 2 to the Bill contains tax provisions relating to a restructuring of the Royal Ma...
Lord Razzall | 710 c855 (Link to this contribution) Clause 10: Meaning of "owned in its entirety by the Crown" and "publicly owned" Amendment 18 18: C...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c853 (Link to this contribution) In that context, my Lords, may I thank the Secretary of State for his very persuasive response? I wo...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c853-4 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 2: Taxation provisions relating to re-structuring etc Amendment 16 16: Schedule 2, page 4...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c853 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before my noble friend sits down, may I ask him one question?
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c853 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friend has sat down; we have to work to the rules of Report.
Lord Razzall | 710 c853 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have been given a lecture in the document that has been sent round as to what is suppos...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c853 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the practice is so continuous that it would be invidious of me to select one example of wh...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c853 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps my noble friend—I have slipped, haven’t I?—perhaps the Secretary of State will ans...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c860 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 22 22: After Clause 12, insert the following new Clause— "Employee share schemes The requ...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c860 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 23 23: After Clause 12, insert the following new Clause— "Annual report on post office ne...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c855 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not mind if the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, does it in his summing-up. All I am asking ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c856 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can the noble Lord who moved the amendment confirm that a savings scheme already exists wh...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c856 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, how pleased I am that the Secretary of State has tabled Amendment 22, which we are discuss...
Baroness Vadera | 710 c856-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the Secretary of State said in Committee, the Government believe that Royal Mail’s empl...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c855 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will the noble Lord explain one thing to me? He talked about the John Lewis trust. I under...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c855 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the noble Lord has just made a point then the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, can refer to it...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c827 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I need the leave of the House to reply.
Lord Razzall | 710 c827 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not going to speak on the amendment, but I was intrigued when I read—I was going to ...
Lord Christopher | 710 c827 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I could ask the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, if his enthusiasm for this part-privatisati...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c820-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the first amendment in this rather large group deals with the ownership of Royal Mail and ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c885 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that further comment but, as I said earlier, people deliver wh...
Lord Razzall | 710 c907 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 63 63: After Clause 41, insert the following new Clause— "Investment fund for post office...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c864-5 (Link to this contribution) Clause 16: Transfer of qualifying accrued rights to new public scheme Amendment 34 34: Clause 16, ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c837-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, how interesting those last few moments have been. Let us go back to the beginning, when th...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c819-20 (Link to this contribution) Clause 1: Post Office companies to be owned in their entirety by the Crown 1: Clause 1, leave out C...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c880-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 55 deals with the division of the investments of the RMPP when the new public sc...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c860-1 (Link to this contribution) Clause 15: Introduction Amendment 32 32: Clause 15, page 8, line 1, leave out subsection (2) and i...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c850-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 15 seeks to impose another reporting requirement, this time on the partnership d...
Lord Razzall | 710 c857-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her response. I will turn to the remarks made by the noble ...
Lord Razzall | 710 c855 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as your Lordships will be aware, this is a critical amendment for the Liberal Democrat Ben...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c826-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, I declare my interest as set out in the Register—in particular, being a partner in ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 710 c885 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with my noble friend on many things but I disagree on this and stress the purity o...
Subjects
Consumers Companies Directors Annual reports Finance Government shareholding Protection Pensions Post offices Prices Postal services Ofcom Post Office Regulation Taxation Royal Mail Reorganisation Universal service obligation Shared ownership schemes TNT Employee ownership
Legislation
Postal Services Bill (HL) 2008-09
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk