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Estimates day on Monday, 12 March 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Kevin Barron. The answering member was Andy Burnham.

NHS Deficits

Supplementary estimates 2006-07. Second estimates day (part one). Motion that, for the year ending with 31st March 2007, for expenditure by the Department of Health— (1) further resources, not exceeding £94,395,000, be authorised for use as set out in House of Commons Paper No. 293, (2) a further sum, not exceeding £1,000, be granted to Her Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund to meet the costs as so set out, and (3) limits as so set out be set on appropriations in aid. Question deferred. Resolved.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
458 c40-91 
Session
2006-07
Department
Department of Health
Procedure
Supply estimates
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Supplementary estimates, 2006-07
Monday, 12 March 2007
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
Estimates
Tuesday, 6 March 2007
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
Show all related items (7)
Proceeding contributions
Kevin Barron | 458 c44-5 (Link to this contribution) The Department mentioned six areas in its executive summary in relation to the current deficits, and...
Mark Pritchard | 458 c45-6 (Link to this contribution) Recommendation 29 of the Select Committee report expresses concern about short-term answers to some ...
Show all contributions (121)
Kevin Barron | 458 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) Let me read out the Government’s response again:"““We have changed this financial focus, and, in the...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c47-8 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity to discuss health service deficits. It is fair to put on record that nobod...
Kevin Barron | 458 c46 (Link to this contribution) I think it was a positive step. The hon. Gentleman will find ““Explaining NHS Deficits, 2003/04 – 20...
Bernard Jenkin | 458 c46 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to the right hon. Gentleman’s speech with interest, because he is describing many of ...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 458 c49 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady, like me, deprecate the fact that a significant number of PCTs across the country...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c49 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I will return to that issue later. When establishing a funding for...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c48-9 (Link to this contribution) I intend to. The Committee recommended a review of the funding formula. We took a host of evidence o...
Lord Lansley | 458 c41 (Link to this contribution) Let me make my point clear. All provider trusts in the NHS are businesses. In the course of their no...
Kevin Barron | 458 c41 (Link to this contribution) As an individual, and not speaking on behalf of the Committee, I accept that all sectors of the NHS—...
Lord Lansley | 458 c41 (Link to this contribution) The Select Committee sought the disapplication of resource accounting and budgeting to the NHS. For ...
Kevin Barron | 458 c40-1 (Link to this contribution) First, let me say how pleased I am that we have this opportunity to debate the Health Committee’s re...
Mike Penning | 458 c44 (Link to this contribution) The individuals who gave evidence to the Select Committee were joined by the chief economist for the...
Kevin Barron | 458 c41 (Link to this contribution) We need to extend the debate. I shall say a little about what the Committee found in some health com...
Mike Penning | 458 c42 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I have the honour of being a member of the Committee of which the right hon. Gentleman is the C...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 458 c42 (Link to this contribution) We all greatly respect how the right hon. Gentleman chairs the Select Committee. I have raised with ...
Kevin Barron | 458 c42-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will see exactly what we tried to do in the report. We dealt with how to manage t...
Kevin Barron | 458 c42 (Link to this contribution) At this stage, I would say to the hon. Gentleman that we looked at the issue of payment by results, ...
Kevin Barron | 458 c42 (Link to this contribution) I shall have to give way to the hon. Gentleman, who is a member of the Committee.
Graham Stuart | 458 c83 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister tell us what the trend was before the Government came to power and what it has bee...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c49-50 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman agrees. Services cost a different amount to deliver in different a...
Speaker | 458 c40 (Link to this contribution) Order. An awful lot of private, loud conversations are taking place in the Chamber. That is unfair t...
Kevin Barron | 458 c42 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman uses the phrase ““so bad””, which I am not sure I would use, but we tried to esta...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 458 c41-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley), speaking from the Conservative Benches, rais...
Kevin Barron | 458 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, I thank Members in all parts of the House who have taken part in the de...
Andy Burnham | 458 c89 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should read the letter that his hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire s...
Andy Burnham | 458 c88-9 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I must conclude, because I have taken too much time. I should like to do justice t...
Andy Burnham | 458 c88 (Link to this contribution) I should like to make progress, because there are some serious issues that my right hon. Friend the ...
Simon Burns | 458 c61 (Link to this contribution) The Minister and I may have to agree to differ because I have more faith in the judgment of GPs to c...
Simon Burns | 458 c61 (Link to this contribution) I knew about that, although I confess that I had forgotten my hon. Friend’s valid point. After many ...
Simon Burns | 458 c58-60 (Link to this contribution) Let me start on a positive note by thanking the Minister for the tremendous work that he did over a ...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 458 c73 (Link to this contribution) I am not a Health Committee member, but I was particularly interested in the report and I congratula...
Richard Taylor | 458 c68 (Link to this contribution) That is why the Committee said in its inquiry that it could not come to a firm resolution. I welcome...
Andy Burnham | 458 c68 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to follow the logic of the hon. Gentleman’s comments. Over the next two years, however, ...
Andy Burnham | 458 c90 (Link to this contribution) I shall not give way, because I am about to finish my remarks. If we couple that policy with the eff...
Andy Burnham | 458 c89 (Link to this contribution) When one questions, probes and pulls at Conservative party policy, it is interesting to see just how...
Speaker | 458 c89 (Link to this contribution) Order. We cannot have these continual interruptions from a sedentary position. If hon. Members want ...
Simon Burns | 458 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) All right, an assessment group—[Interruption.] Let us not quibble about figures and simply say an as...
Andy Burnham | 458 c61 (Link to this contribution) Does not the hon. Gentleman accept that many such services throughout the country are clinically led...
Mike Penning | 458 c61 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend know that, even if one sees a consultant, and the consultant, who is much more q...
Andy Burnham | 458 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions efficiency and effectiveness. Does he accept that it might be more effic...
Simon Burns | 458 c61 (Link to this contribution) I completely accept that, but it is not the point that I am making. A GP is qualified to decide whet...
Charlotte Atkins | 458 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) As a Unison member and someone who used to write evidence for the pay review body, I would not encou...
Mike Penning | 458 c69-71 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate Members on both sides of the House on their contributions to the debate on a report b...
Bob Spink | 458 c64 (Link to this contribution) While my hon. Friend is discussing independent treatment centres, did he see the written answer that...
Mike Penning | 458 c87-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister, and I shall not hold it against him that he has given way to his hon. Friends ...
Andy Burnham | 458 c87 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I was about to say to my right hon. Friend that we made it clear in...
Charlotte Atkins | 458 c54 (Link to this contribution) The Government have invested unprecedented levels of funding in the NHS since 1997. Funding will hav...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c57 (Link to this contribution) All hon. Members will have been bombarded by e-mails from nurses who naturally feel aggrieved by the...
Mike Penning | 458 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. Evidence to our inquiry brought to light the fact that my constit...
Graham Stuart | 458 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that in respect of funding we are currently using proxies of health need r...
Simon Burns | 458 c73 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 458 c73 (Link to this contribution) Not at present. I also listened to the remarks of the hon. Member for Castle Point (Bob Spink).
Richard Taylor | 458 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) That is why the inquiries instituted—one of which is supposed to report by autumn this year, and the...
Bernard Jenkin | 458 c68 (Link to this contribution) Does not the hon. Gentleman’s concern have much more urgency, given that increases in NHS expenditur...
Charles Walker | 458 c66 (Link to this contribution) As a Member representing a Hertfordshire seat, I must point out that the deficits are being addresse...
Andy Burnham | 458 c84-5 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress, so I will not give way. We are 19 days away from the end of what I acc...
Andy Burnham | 458 c84 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, I would not do that. My hon. Friend is right to raise that point because the consequences o...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 458 c84 (Link to this contribution) May I invite the Minister to come and speak to one of the 6,000 people—my constituents and those of ...
Andy Burnham | 458 c84 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is arguing that the national service frameworks on the big killer diseases and...
Andy Burnham | 458 c83 (Link to this contribution) It says in my notes that I should congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Mr...
Lord Lansley | 458 c80-3 (Link to this contribution) I am not being unfair. I shall quote exactly what the chief economic adviser said:"““We shall not, h...
Lord Lansley | 458 c80 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and the pay review body used robust language, both this year and...
Lord Lansley | 458 c78-80 (Link to this contribution) I am glad to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin), who was admirably brief ...
Speaker | 458 c74 (Link to this contribution) Order. This is a serious matter. Perhaps we can conduct our affairs with a little more decorum.
Simon Burns | 458 c74 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Andy Burnham | 458 c88 (Link to this contribution) At the beginning of my contribution, I gave the figures on relative health improvement in the countr...
Kevin Barron | 458 c86-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that but the Minister has highlighted that after the fourth quarter there may be a...
Andy Burnham | 458 c87 (Link to this contribution) I can tell my right hon. Friend that all organisations are in the process of finalising their financ...
Andy Burnham | 458 c87 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman in a moment. That is the best way to serve all health economi...
David Leslie Taylor | 458 c87 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that in pursuing a financial balance, decisions and actions can be taken th...
Andy Burnham | 458 c87 (Link to this contribution) What makes sense for the NHS as a whole is to ensure that it does not have loose priorities. The hon...
Andy Burnham | 458 c86 (Link to this contribution) If I may, I should like to come on to the points that my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Val...
Bernard Jenkin | 458 c85 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is talking about getting the NHS into financial balance, but in paragraph 107 of the Se...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 458 c51 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for being generous in accepting interventions. Does she agree that it ill beho...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c51-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to that point later. There has been a problem with cascading from national level to str...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 458 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) I endorse what the hon. Lady said. I was taken aback by the comments of the director of Kensington a...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c51 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has probably got himself a press release out of that. I was about to say that I w...
Neil Turner | 458 c49 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady mentions the market forces factor and indicates that there are increased costs in the ...
Neil Turner | 458 c49 (Link to this contribution) Yes it is. People get paid that extra money. The market forces factor is not based on the closed eco...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c49 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman is supporting my call for a review of the market forces factor.
Lord Khan of Tooting | 458 c54 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend surprised to hear that last year a political party scared local communities about ...
Charlotte Atkins | 458 c54-6 (Link to this contribution) That would not surprise me at all, because as I said, only 45 of those 150 redundancies were compuls...
Andy Burnham | 458 c56 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening closely to my hon. Friend’s remarks. I recognise that the trust has been deali...
Charlotte Atkins | 458 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. The decision to ensure that the PFI hospital went ahead in a slightly smaller form was s...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c53 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, my hon. Friend feels passionately about the issue. When the contract was negotiated, there ...
Paul Farrelly | 458 c53 (Link to this contribution) Is it the hon. Lady’s understanding, as it is mine, that the money for dentistry is ring-fenced and ...
Sandra Gidley | 458 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) The point that I was making was that the pot of money had been reduced. There are cases of people tr...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 458 c53 (Link to this contribution) One group of people who are queuing up at the surgeries of every right hon. and hon. Member in the C...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 458 c64 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point. It would have helped if the Government had introduced the new ta...
Graham Stuart | 458 c64 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend know from his experience before entering the House whether any chief executive w...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 458 c64-6 (Link to this contribution) The Select Committee heard significant evidence from many people in the private and public sectors. ...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 458 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise greatly with my hon. Friend. My own trust has seen a £7.7 million deficit resulting in ...
Richard Taylor | 458 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) I feel that the gist of the Health Committee report was more critical than speeches so far have refl...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 458 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) It is appropriate to examine the financial and political context of our debate on NHS deficits. I co...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 458 c63 (Link to this contribution) I am merely saying that the Government’s incompetence when it comes to executing ““Agenda for Change...
Andy Burnham | 458 c63 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that he and his party would favour repealing elements of ““Agenda f...
Bernard Jenkin | 458 c80 (Link to this contribution) Is it not an insult that the Government claim that nurses are getting a higher increase on the basis...
Simon Burns | 458 c74 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. I am aware that the Liberal Democrats ...
Bernard Jenkin | 458 c76-8 (Link to this contribution) I follow the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Mr. Willis), and I share some of his dilem...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 458 c74-6 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that I have been able to give the hon. Gentleman an opportunity to clarify that. We n...
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 458 c73 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way. I am just making a comment on the—[Interruption.]
Lord Willis of Knaresborough | 458 c74 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It is also interesting that the hon. Member for Castle Point, who sit...
Simon Burns | 458 c73 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Speaker | 458 c87 (Link to this contribution) Order. I appreciate that it is difficult for the Minister when he is asked a question by someone who...
Andy Burnham | 458 c86 (Link to this contribution) Well, I have set out what the hon. Gentleman said. Let me quote the very beginning of the Select Com...
Andy Burnham | 458 c85 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should look at the detail of the Select Committee’s report. It is clear, as every...
Hugh Bayley | 458 c85 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Department for the assistance that it has given north Yorkshire in getting to grips with...
Andy Burnham | 458 c85 (Link to this contribution) I can give my hon. Friend an assurance that we will. We keep the formula under constant review, and ...
Andy Burnham | 458 c86 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way. I shall now turn to the points raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Ro...
Subjects
Staff Audit Health services Finance Expenditure Health authorities NHS Recruitment Public expenditure Private finance initiative Primary care trusts Redundancy Department of Health Health Committee
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