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Adjournment debate on Thursday, 3 May 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Tony McNulty. The answering member was Lord Herbert of South Downs.

Policing in London

Debate on a motion for the adjournment on policing in London.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
459 c1657-746 
Session
2006-07
Department
Home Office
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Justine Greening | 459 c1677 (Link to this contribution) Certainly, in my constituency, people do not feel safe leaving their doors open. I assume that the s...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1676-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I agree with what he says. The Labour Members who appear to be ...
Show all contributions (155)
Robert Neill | 459 c1677 (Link to this contribution) Is not the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Justine Greening) made about young peopl...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1677 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and one reason why there is a problem with the British crime sur...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1677-8 (Link to this contribution) Next week or the week after, a substantive conference will be held at which banks, individuals invol...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1677 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point. One aspect of performance in relation to crime in the past year about ...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1678 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman was about to complete his sweep of different types of crime, but may I just ask h...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1678 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I think that I recall receiving an invitation to the conference, whic...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1674-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady misunderstands me. I was making an argument about value for money and pointing out tha...
David Evennett | 459 c1676 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful case—[Interruption.] If Labour Members will listen, they will fi...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1673 (Link to this contribution) We will be hearing many lectures on Stalinism from the Labour Benches over the next few months. I am...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1673 (Link to this contribution) If I get the opportunity to make a speech, I will deal with the hon. Gentleman’s point in some detai...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1673 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. Since the hon. Member for Ealing, A...
Robert Neill | 459 c1673 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we can lay to rest this canard that is trotted out by the hon. Member for Ealing, Acton and ...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1674 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend’s point gives us a warning. With the honourable exception of those people who do not ...
Justine Greening | 459 c1674 (Link to this contribution) May I bring my hon. Friend back to his original comments about policing numbers? An interesting arti...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1674 (Link to this contribution) If the experiment is successful, perhaps other boroughs will decide to invest some of their resource...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1673-4 (Link to this contribution) May I ask a very parochial question? Will the hon. Gentleman speak to his colleagues in Hammersmith ...
Karen Buck | 459 c1674 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that he is in favour of local accountability as a means of anchoring neighbo...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1673 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman does not seem to have spotted that I am making an argument in favour of an increa...
Robert Neill | 459 c1682 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that on this issue the Mayor of London is, for once, right? His concerns ...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1681-2 (Link to this contribution) Other important factors in relation to the accessibility of the police need to be addressed. Another...
Justine Greening | 459 c1681 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a valuable point. My experience locally is that because of constraints on b...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1680-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is wrong. Even patrol officers are spending more time on paperwork than they are ...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1680 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that 75 per cent. of neighbourhood policing teams’ time is spent on v...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1680 (Link to this contribution) I would caution the hon. Gentleman against making the argument that all the paperwork is essential t...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1679 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way—he has been generous in accepting interventions. Does he n...
Dawn Butler | 459 c1679 (Link to this contribution) It is part of the accountability process.
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1678-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. The fall in many crimes, as the Minister conceded, was expected because...
Justine Greening | 459 c1665 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just said that common assault is down, but the figures for reporting that crime sho...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1665-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. As I have already said, there is interplay between the BCS and recorded crime figures,...
Baroness Hoey | 459 c1664 (Link to this contribution) Earlier, my hon. Friend talked about the very welcome investment that has gone into the Metropolitan...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1664 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport announced her spending plan...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1662 (Link to this contribution) In a moment—it is customary to allow a question to be answered. Many commentators now invoke the BCS...
Richard Ottaway | 459 c1663 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is entitled to take credit for the improved crime figures. Communications have improved...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1663-4 (Link to this contribution) I do not dispute that, nationally as well as in London, crimes by young people on other young people...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1662-3 (Link to this contribution) Of course I agree with that. The hon. Gentleman has a slightly distorted view: he represents Southwa...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1660 (Link to this contribution) I do not share that view, given that the MPA, as a police authority, is markedly different from auth...
Justine Greening | 459 c1662 (Link to this contribution) The Minister mentions recorded crime figures. Is he aware that between 2004-05 and 2005-06 the Briti...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1662 (Link to this contribution) As I said, I do not want to use statistics too much today, and I certainly do not want to have a row...
Jacqui Lait | 459 c1658 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I might build on this point. Although we are very grateful for this debate on policing, coul...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1658-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a fair point, although in saying that I in no way traduce the work of the Table ...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1659 (Link to this contribution) I share the Minister’s view that the MPA’s consisting of more than just elected GLA members is a goo...
Robert Neill | 459 c1660 (Link to this contribution) As someone who has fought the last two GLA elections, I agree with the Minister’s point about the im...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1672 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady raises an interesting point that is often made to argue against the impact of the poli...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1672 (Link to this contribution) I know that my local Conservatives and Conservatives in the Greater London assembly have consistentl...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1671-2 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I was going to come to that point shortly, but I am happy to engage with the hon. Gentleman now...
Karen Buck | 459 c1672 (Link to this contribution) If we are going to have an informed debate, surely we must make the point that demographic factors w...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1671 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to get drawn into the dispute about the ban on handguns. I will say later that I thin...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1671 (Link to this contribution) There is an important debate to have about the value that people get for the resources that are put ...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1670-1 (Link to this contribution) I will come to the point that the hon. Gentleman raises later. Founded by Sir Robert Peel in 1829, ...
Baroness Hoey | 459 c1671 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned earlier the increase in gun crime. Does he agree that those of us on bo...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1669 (Link to this contribution) I join the Minister in paying tribute to the work of officers of all ranks in all the forces that op...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1670 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned the 30,000 police officers in the Met. Does he accept that that is an i...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1668 (Link to this contribution) I think that those points will be factored in. The commissioner is clear that the police and securit...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1668-9 (Link to this contribution) I have long held the view that, as we now have safer neighbourhood partnerships in every borough in ...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1669 (Link to this contribution) I accept the point that there needs to be some sort of streamlining. The police and all other bodies...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1666-7 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to congratulate the BTP in that regard and apologise to my hon. Friend for making his poi...
Richard Ottaway | 459 c1667 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister moves away from the issue of terrorism, may I return him to the subject of the O...
Robert Neill | 459 c1667 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaw...
Dawn Butler | 459 c1666 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the safer stations campaign has been extremely successful? The Mayor ...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1666 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely. The BTP has interpreted neighbourhood policing by working with the Mayor to incr...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1666 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend congratulate Southern and South West Trains, whose work in partnership with the ...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1658 (Link to this contribution) I certainly take this opportunity so to do—in fact, I was going to do that in the next paragraph of ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1658 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will of course be aware that since we came to power—we celebrated this week the 10th ...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1658 (Link to this contribution) Once I have sat down, I shall have extensive discussions with my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar a...
David Evennett | 459 c1657-8 (Link to this contribution) May I endorse what the Minister said? It is important that we have regular such debates in the Chamb...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1657 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House do now adjourn. The Government have elected to debate the policing o...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1682-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the cross-party cover with which he has provided me. Of course, ...
Justine Greening | 459 c1685 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making some valid points, but it brings me back to my previous intervention. If we ...
Karen Buck | 459 c1685-6 (Link to this contribution) I agree with that up to a point, but we also heard earlier great concerns expressed about the admini...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1686 (Link to this contribution) To be fair to the Conservative spokesman, the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert)...
Karen Buck | 459 c1686 (Link to this contribution) I accept that, but the truth is that even in those cities, the challenge of the narrative remains—ho...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1687 (Link to this contribution) Just to reinforce a point, I lived for 18 years in Chicago, so I am probably one of the few people h...
Karen Buck | 459 c1687-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. It is certainly true that we can and should always learn...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1744-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. Given the nature of north-west London suburbia, especially in my constituency, whic...
Justine Greening | 459 c1738-9 (Link to this contribution) Wandsworth council is working closely with the police to make the case for more resources. The reduc...
Andrew Rosindell | 459 c1739-40 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for missing the opening speech in this important debate. I w...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1740 (Link to this contribution) If I have understood the hon. Gentleman correctly, I am concerned. Some of the most effective CSOs i...
Andrew Rosindell | 459 c1740-2 (Link to this contribution) I do not disagree at all. That is tremendous and if someone is looking for a retirement job, that is...
Justine Greening | 459 c1733-7 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate on an issue that is often uppermo...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1738 (Link to this contribution) There is always something surreal about hearing Wandsworth Tories protest about lack of resources. W...
Justine Greening | 459 c1738 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that having paid our part of the policing precept and getting fewer...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1738 (Link to this contribution) I would like the hon. Lady to answer the question that I put to her. I intervened on her and I would...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1742-3 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, I will briefly respond to the debate. On the whole, it has been a reaso...
Robert Neill | 459 c1721-5 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to my hon. Friend; I am behind with my knowledge of constituency boundaries. The concer...
Robert Neill | 459 c1720-1 (Link to this contribution) Dead right. It is a serious debate because, as the Minister suspected, this has been the top issue ...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1726-31 (Link to this contribution) I sense that the centre of British political interest may be somewhere else today. None the less, I ...
Robert Neill | 459 c1731 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with that point. The hon. Gentleman might be interested to know that we have had g...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1725 (Link to this contribution) There may be appropriate accountability structures that we need, but I would certainly not favour on...
Robert Neill | 459 c1725-6 (Link to this contribution) There may be less between the Minister and myself than I thought, but the fact is that councillors s...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1731-3 (Link to this contribution) Nor was it a swastika. This a serious point, but a little one. I am not trying to make a big point. ...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1731 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. We need to be imaginative and to look at best practice. We cannot be prescriptive, but t...
David Evennett | 459 c1712-4 (Link to this contribution) That is true. Teenage lads and girls on their way home are particularly vulnerable, yet the media hi...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1714-5 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Mr. Evennett) commented at the beginning of his s...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1715 (Link to this contribution) On that note, I give way to the hon. Member for Putney (Justine Greening).
Justine Greening | 459 c1715 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. I note that he talked about the number of office...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1715 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady for allowing Members to hear the kind of party political pr...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1716-20 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady needs to take account of the fact that the formula by which officers are allocated was...
Robert Neill | 459 c1720 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, which I welcome. I endorse the comments made by the Minist...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1712 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has raised a point that is of real concern to my constituents. Is there not a dou...
David Evennett | 459 c1711-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I am sure that she will elaborate on it if she catches your e...
Justine Greening | 459 c1711 (Link to this contribution) One thing that always strikes me about statistics is that people do not just get 1 per cent. mugged;...
David Evennett | 459 c1710-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to be able to participate in the debate. As I said in an earlier intervention on th...
Dawn Butler | 459 c1709-10 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a point about cannabis, but where crime has fallen, it is not just in relation t...
Justine Greening | 459 c1709 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady have any views on how much crime has fallen as a result of the downgrading of the...
Dawn Butler | 459 c1708-9 (Link to this contribution) All I can say is that the Liberal Democrats are putting out the information in my constituency. In f...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1708 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady lets me see the leaflets, I will give her an honest view. However, for a year befor...
Dawn Butler | 459 c1707-8 (Link to this contribution) All hon. Members agree that the way in which London is policed has a major impact on the lives of al...
Lord Horam | 459 c1704-7 (Link to this contribution) It was nothing to do with the Liberal Democrats, then; I am glad to hear that from the Minister. For...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1704 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that it was one of the parties that the hon. Gentleman has been in.
Lord Horam | 459 c1703 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the Government have chosen this subject for today’s debate not only because it g...
Lord Horam | 459 c1703-4 (Link to this contribution) There will not be much longer, if the speeches continue to go on for quite as long as some have done...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1701-2 (Link to this contribution) They are pretty old Conservatives in Hammersmith and Fulham. We have a scheme in which we have a li...
Mike Gapes | 459 c1701 (Link to this contribution) These are the new Conservatives.
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1703 (Link to this contribution) I do not do as much globetrotting on freebies as Conservative Members. However, let me give the hon....
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1702-3 (Link to this contribution) I must apologise to the hon. Gentleman for speaking for longer than I intended, but that was because...
Mike Gapes | 459 c1699 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend’s point about the role of local councils is crucial. Does he agree that, far too ofte...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1697-9 (Link to this contribution) The Mayor’s office, the MPA, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner and local forces always provide us...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1695-7 (Link to this contribution) Small businesses in the communities in my constituency have been integrated effectively into safer n...
Justine Greening | 459 c1695 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making an important point. Although there is clearly an opportunity to involve loca...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1700-1 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I fear that one or more Conservative councils may feature in that. At heart, I have sympathy...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1699 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to be positive but my hon. Friend need not worry. There is some negative stuff coming up...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1694-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree. Information is key, especially in the highly sensitive times that we are living through. Kn...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1693-4 (Link to this contribution) That sounds an ideal arrangement. As the hon. Lady will know, however, in many parts of London it ha...
Karen Buck | 459 c1689 (Link to this contribution) I do not always agree with my Prime Minister. The truth is, however, that he and this Government hav...
Justine Greening | 459 c1690 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has raised an interesting point. The danger with the safer neighbourhood team model is...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1690 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman should know, I will be delighted when all the teams have been rolled out. I di...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1691 (Link to this contribution) I endorse everything that my hon. Friend has said about safer neighbourhood teams. She, I and many o...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1690-1 (Link to this contribution) As long as the hon. Lady accepts that PCSOs have an important role, and that their visibility and pr...
Andy Slaughter | 459 c1692 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Lady can be slightly clearer on this point than the Conservative Front Bench. Will ...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1691-2 (Link to this contribution) I fully agree with my hon. Friend’s comments, and I shall deal with that point later. There are som...
Dawn Butler | 459 c1693 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady join me in congratulating schools in Brent that have appointed a sort of prefect ...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1692-3 (Link to this contribution) Ironically, I have never heard of any such candidate doing so. The hon. Member for Bromley and Chisl...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1690 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady congratulate the Mayor on rolling out the teams one year ahead of the original pl...
Baroness Kramer | 459 c1689-90 (Link to this contribution) I join the Minister and the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) in congratulating...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1660-2 (Link to this contribution) We will see. To be partisan, although not politically partisan, I welcome another West Ham fan to th...
Simon Hughes | 459 c1662 (Link to this contribution) I spend a lot of time trying to use the media to convince people that crime in London is generally c...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1667 (Link to this contribution) I say to the hon. Gentleman—I mean this in the strongest terms—that the plans will be reviewed, refl...
Karen Buck | 459 c1685 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by reflecting on the comments made by the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 459 c1694 (Link to this contribution) There are further points to be made in addition to those about the individual merits of scrutiny and...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 459 c1679 (Link to this contribution) Accountability does not have to be bureaucratic. The fact that, on the Government’s own figures, pol...
Tony McNulty | 459 c1660 (Link to this contribution) I do not doubt that. The hon. Gentleman will know that we have facilitated that, if the Mayor choose...
Lord Horam | 459 c1704 (Link to this contribution) Well, they are not. I have tried to find them, and it has been very difficult. I am pleased to hear ...
Justine Greening | 459 c1662 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way on that?
Subjects
Crime prevention Crime Crimes of violence British Transport Police Finance Firearms Greater London Homicide Greater London Authority Home Office Emergency calls Police Offensive weapons Mayor of London Police authorities Police community support officers Metropolitan Police Metropolitan Police Authority Terrorism
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