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House of Lords (Members’ Taxation Status) Bill [HL]

Secondary information

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

700 c1725-56 

Session

2007-08

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Private members' bills proceedings

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Disqualification from Parliament (Taxation Status) Bill
Wednesday, 5 December 2007
Bills
House of Commons

House of Lords (Members Taxation Status) Bill (HL).
Wednesday, 27 February 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Earl of Caithness | 700 c1754 (Link to this contribution) Does that affect the position?

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1754 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; I missed the noble Earl’s last sentence.

Show all contributions (109)

Earl of Caithness | 700 c1754 (Link to this contribution) Having listened to this debate, which I find fascinating, perhaps I may ask the noble Lord whether t...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1754 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to go into too much detail now but I think that there is a fairly clear and well estab...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1754 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I do not follow the noble Earl. I must have missed something a little earlier than ...

Lord Howard of Rising | 700 c1754 (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for their many comments but I remain completely unconvinced. I do not think that...

Baroness Hayman | 700 c1755 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 3 is therefore not amended.

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1756 (Link to this contribution) Because I totally disagree with the amendment to my amendment. It was not my choice that it should b...

Lord Bach | 700 c1756 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. Moved accordingly and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1755-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not intend to press Amendment No. 3 this evening partly because I have been informed by one of ...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1756 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that he would address the point raised by the Minister about charities and NGOs,...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1756 (Link to this contribution) We will further consider that between now and Report. As I made clear, I had considered and taken a ...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1756 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that he knew what was happening and that he therefore did not want to include hi...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1743 (Link to this contribution) The noble Viscount has still not quite grasped how the Bill works. It is not objectively whether you...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1744 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can remind the noble Lord that this is not true and that each country has a different requ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1743 (Link to this contribution) It is tempting for me to go through the matters we are debating in the cross-party group, but I do n...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1743 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that response. If the Bill went through and became an Act, would ...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) Don’t leave it too late.

Viscount Astor | 700 c1742-3 (Link to this contribution) I will follow the example my noble friend sets for all in this House. My noble friend Lord De Maule...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) Of course I will take my noble friend’s advice and do the best I can.

Lord Howard of Rising | 700 c1746-7 (Link to this contribution) moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 3, Amendment No. 4: 4: Clause 1, line 4, leave out from ““...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1744-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3: 3: Clause 1, page 1, line 4, at end insert— ““(1A) Subsection (1) shall not...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1744 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, has contradicted something he said earlier. He is saying that you sh...

Lord Elton | 700 c1741-2 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord says that this is not a taxation Bill, and in so far as it merely addresses the statu...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) That is a very fair point and I welcome the contribution of all these people, wherever they live. Al...

Lord Elton | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) At the same time as they contribute to foreign taxes?

Lord Desai | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that this Bill is not about the taxation of people, but about whether they...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1740-1 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may correct the noble Lord. I am afraid that he is wrong on the difference between domicil...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1741 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that; he has helped to clarify a point. If the point that he has been mak...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) That is the case in Scotland.

Viscount Astor | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken to my rather modest amendment, and particularly to ...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) I interrupt my noble friend for a moment to suggest that he directs his efforts to making sure that ...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1742 (Link to this contribution) Scotland might be one of the places where I end up, and so I had better do something.

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1737 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may like to answer that particularly interesting question, but I wonder whether I can, ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1738 (Link to this contribution) When we were debating the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill, the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, su...

Lord Elton | 700 c1738 (Link to this contribution) While the noble Lord is considering that, has he not revealed that he is in fact in an undeclared di...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1737 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord made a very interesting statement. He said that the Government wish to see this House...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1737 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, about that, because the February 2007 White Paper ...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1738-9 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to join the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, in the anoraks’ club. I hope that I can learn from...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1740 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that if the noble Lord, Lord Foster, were resident in this country, he would hav...

Lord Elton | 700 c1738 (Link to this contribution) Did the noble Lord say that the Prentice Bill transgressed the principle of non-interference with pe...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1738 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Elton, invites me to tread in dangerous water. I will try to tread myself out o...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1733 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may help the noble Lord.

Lord De Mauley | 700 c1734-5 (Link to this contribution) I should say at the outset that, echoing the words of my noble friend Lord Strathclyde at Second Rea...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1733 (Link to this contribution) Just on the question concerning graves. There is a lair certificate, which is issued to you in Scotl...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1735 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I might make an observation or two. For a few years, I used to decorate the passages of the ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1735-6 (Link to this contribution) This has been a fascinating debate. The noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, is discovering what all us anora...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1736 (Link to this contribution) I think the Minister is confused. It is Thursday today.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1736-7 (Link to this contribution) It is true that today is Thursday but none the less most of our debates on the Bills introduced by t...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1737 (Link to this contribution) As this is primarily a Bill to deal with taxation, is it correct that it should be introduced in thi...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 700 c1737 (Link to this contribution) I have a supplementary question to that posed by the noble Earl. If, as is the policy of the Conserv...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1732 (Link to this contribution) We are all having a laugh as well, but some of these issues are serious. The problem will not necess...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1732 (Link to this contribution) Then why do noble Lords declare that they have interests? If you declare an interest because you hav...

Lord Desai | 700 c1733 (Link to this contribution) I should have said that you had to have a plot reserved in your name in a graveyard and that you had...

Lord Desai | 700 c1733 (Link to this contribution) I always thought that this was a simple Bill. The Liberal party, as yet, does not have the power to ...

Lord Elton | 700 c1733 (Link to this contribution) I did not think that I had heard my noble friend aright when he said that you had to have a grave in...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1733 (Link to this contribution) I think that noble Lords will find that it is relevant. Could I please again have a definition of ““...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1732 (Link to this contribution) I thought that that would get a laugh.

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) That is not the case. I was born and brought up in the United Kingdom but from my birth until 1966 I...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) That is very good as the noble Lord has always proposed harmonisation of taxation. As I say, I may b...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord should address the Committee as a whole and not the Back Benches.

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Earl for that intervention but it may be convenient if I point myself in ...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1730-2 (Link to this contribution) That relates to the noble Lord himself, and I am not necessarily talking entirely about British subj...

Lord Elton | 700 c1732 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should remind my noble friend that in this House we can represent only ourselves.

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned about domicile, and so are other people. I assume that in some cases, in order to be ...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. I missed the last word.

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) When I was born my father was, and continued to be for the whole of his life, domiciled in the USA. ...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) I recognise a filibuster when I hear one.

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1727 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I may be forgiven for intervening but I am pleased with the gentle light-hearted way wit...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1726-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is probably better at his European geography than I am, whether it is Luxembourg or L...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1727-8 (Link to this contribution) First, I would like to remind the noble Lord of certain procedures in this House that have not neces...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1727 (Link to this contribution) I am having some difficulty following the relevance of some of these points to the amendments under ...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1728-9 (Link to this contribution) The Bill, relating only to the House of Lords, raises an issue that I think should have been raised ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1728 (Link to this contribution) I do not know if I can assist the noble Lord. The normal rule in Committee allows interventions, but...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) I said that I would sit down and raise points on different issues.

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 700 c1729-30 (Link to this contribution) I note that we are now in Committee. I recall the Standing Order that says that long speeches tend t...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 700 c1726 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Viscount for giving way. He mentioned Luxembourg, which is obviously not the same ...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 700 c1726 (Link to this contribution) It was the whole of central Italy.

Viscount Astor | 700 c1725-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 3, leave out ““and domiciled”” The noble Viscoun...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1725 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved acc...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1750 (Link to this contribution) How does the Minister know if he does not have a list?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1750-1 (Link to this contribution) I have it on very good authority. This is a problem that will have to be faced up to. The noble Lor...

Lord De Mauley | 700 c1749-50 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his intervention. I will try to explain why I think these a...

Lord Shutt of Greetland | 700 c1749 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand what the noble Lord said, but as he himself said, the House has met several t...

Lord De Mauley | 700 c1748-9 (Link to this contribution) The fact that the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, has had to propose an amendment to a Bill put forward b...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1748 (Link to this contribution) This amendment, like the Bill, does not really work. It does not work for a number of reasons. As th...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1747-8 (Link to this contribution) If I may just use my 45 years here to comment on this, I have held 21 years of government appointmen...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1747 (Link to this contribution) I shall reply to the noble Lord, Lord Desai, on that. To provide in this Bill for a temporary leave ...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 700 c1753 (Link to this contribution) As it is 6.30 pm and we are here for half an hour, it might be useful to put the thought that the am...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1751-2 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord think that the solution is to have a prescribed list? Normally, it is the role o...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1751 (Link to this contribution) I was just going to be helpful. For many years, I had responsibility for relationships with internat...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1752 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, was a member of the Government for 18 years. I wonder how many pieces ...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1752 (Link to this contribution) Let us not have more legislation, for goodness sake.

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1752 (Link to this contribution) I think the next stage in the procedure is for me to reply on the amendment tabled by the noble Lord...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1752 (Link to this contribution) Stacks; and on the whole, they got through. But rather like the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, we actua...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1752-3 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome the Minister’s suggestion and I may come to that later, but not at this stage. S...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1752 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the problem is the definition of an international organisation. In a sense, the nob...

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1751 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may very quickly take up a moment of our scarce and valuable time, as I heard the noble Lo...

Viscount Astor | 700 c1753-4 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, a question that he has not yet touched on. I asked ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1753 (Link to this contribution) When noble Lords propose lists, it is normal for the Government to point out the risk. Is it definit...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1753 (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl would expect me to say—indeed, I shall say—that what I thought was interesting was th...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1753 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord does that, I note that he says that he would consider what the Minister said a...

Lord Goodhart | 700 c1753 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the best way of putting the position, rather than spending more time on this, is that I am c...

Earl Ferrers | 700 c1753 (Link to this contribution) I was trying to make the point that it was absolutely correct for the noble Lord to be wary of them....

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay | 700 c1740 (Link to this contribution) No. If the noble Lord were non-resident abroad, it would not change his taxation status. We are just...

Lord Selsdon | 700 c1730 (Link to this contribution) You have to have a lair certificate.

Viscount Astor | 700 c1726 (Link to this contribution) No doubt he had an extremely interesting time canvassing the various hostelries around the whole of ...

Lord Desai | 700 c1747 (Link to this contribution) I want to ask the noble Lords, Lord Goodhart and Lord Howard, a very simple question about these ame...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 700 c1750 (Link to this contribution) I do not disagree with the noble Lord’s analysis but I thought that he was being a little unfair to ...

Subjects

Civil servants Channel Islands Employment EU countries House of Lords Exemptions International organisations Isle of Man Domicil Peers Non-departmental public bodies Personal taxation Migrant workers Taxation

Legislation

House of Lords (Members' Taxation Status) Bill (HL) 2007-08

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk