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Estimates day on Monday, 7 July 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Louise Ellman. The answering member was Baroness Winterton of Doncaster.

Public Transport

Main estimates 2008-09. Third estimates day (part one). Motion that, for the year ending with 31st March 2009, for expenditure by the Department for Transport— (1) further resources, not exceeding £8,777,927,000, be authorised for use as set out in House of Commons Paper No. 479, (2) a further sum, not exceeding £7,136,325,000, be granted to Her Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund to meet the costs as so set out, and (3) limits as so set out be set on appropriations in aid. Question deferred. Resolved.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
478 c1181-211 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Transport
Procedure
Supply estimates
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Estimates
Wednesday, 2 July 2008
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
Show all related items (5)
Estimates 2008-09
Monday, 7 July 2008
Formal proceedings
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1208 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary will raise that point with the train operating com...
Norman Baker | 478 c1194 (Link to this contribution) I, too, welcome the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs. Ellman) to her new role. I am very pl...
Show all contributions (92)
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1190-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall make some progress, if I may. I suspect that I anticipate the point that the hon. Gentleman ...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1181-2 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome the decision to have in this important Estimates debate a discussion on the Tran...
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1210-1 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows, there are some areas where it is clear that bus operators and local authori...
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1211 (Link to this contribution) Yes, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Some 102 appeals were received in respect of travel con...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1211 (Link to this contribution) I asked the Minister about the number of appeals that bus companies had lodged, which is a way of me...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1208-9 (Link to this contribution) I hope the Minister recognises that I was in no way grudging about the scheme. We certainly welcome ...
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1209-10 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman seems to have got into a bit of a muddle about the order in which the allocations...
Norman Baker | 478 c1210 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the terms of the review that the right hon. Lady has set out. It is indeed sensible and go...
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1210 (Link to this contribution) At this stage, we are commissioning research to look at some of the issues. I reiterate; it is not e...
Graham Stringer | 478 c1210 (Link to this contribution) I am doubly grateful to my right hon. Friend, first for giving way, and secondly for providing in a ...
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1209 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman probably knows, there are clear mechanisms for local authorities to submit ret...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1209 (Link to this contribution) There is clearly overwhelming support for the concessionary scheme. Will my right hon. Friend undert...
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1209 (Link to this contribution) The issue has been raised by a number of Members. The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham, fo...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1209 (Link to this contribution) Worthing invited officers from the Minister's Department to open the books and look at all the figur...
Richard Caborn | 478 c1208 (Link to this contribution) The Select Committee report called for a more holistic policy on gating, which may involve economic ...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1202-5 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak in this debate, but I have been goaded—not least by the lack of mention ...
Norman Baker | 478 c1205 (Link to this contribution) Well, Lewes is a nice place to get off. Has the hon. Gentleman seen a copy of Scotland's Sunday Post...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1205 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the same applies to Lewes, so I give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1206-7 (Link to this contribution) This has been an excellent debate on a good and interesting report. I pay tribute to the Transport C...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1205-6 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I have not seen this week's Sunday Post, which is very remiss of me, but again, tha...
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 478 c1207-8 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with that. We have discussed today the need to ensure that people can navigate the...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1207 (Link to this contribution) Although I endorse my right hon. Friend's statements about the benefits of technology, does she agre...
Daniel Kawczynski | 478 c1202 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I absolutely join the hon. Gentleman on that. Interestingly, I have also heard positive comment...
David Wright | 478 c1201-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, whom I would call an honourable friend on this issue. I agree w...
Daniel Kawczynski | 478 c1201 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my constituency neighbour, with whom I share a 50-yard border.
Norman Baker | 478 c1199 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps to Worthing, who knows? They can of course get a train to Worthing, changing at Brighton. Th...
Norman Baker | 478 c1198-9 (Link to this contribution) I do as a matter of fact, because it is in the bus companies' interests to do so. There is a need to...
David Clelland | 478 c1198 (Link to this contribution) Having acknowledged that the bus companies are making massive profits, does not the hon. Gentleman t...
Daniel Kawczynski | 478 c1201 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the service is very good. I would like to nominate the Shrewsbury to London train ser...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1201 (Link to this contribution) I nominate Grand Central Trains, which is running a new service from Sunderland to London via York. ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 478 c1199-201 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr. Goodwill) made a very good speech highligh...
David Clelland | 478 c1197 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just made the very point that I was going to raise, in recognising that the p...
Norman Baker | 478 c1197 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. A further element of the equation is the fact that the profits of the bus companies ha...
Norman Baker | 478 c1197-8 (Link to this contribution) To be fair to the Government, they have started to go along that track with their proposals in the L...
Lord Redwood | 478 c1195 (Link to this contribution) On that point, could the hon. Gentleman remind us how big a local income tax would be needed to bala...
Norman Baker | 478 c1195 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Many local authorities were not entirely ready for the scheme wh...
David Clelland | 478 c1197 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Norman Baker | 478 c1195-7 (Link to this contribution) This is not a debate about local income tax, but I am happy to tell the right hon. Gentleman that al...
Richard Caborn | 478 c1193-4 (Link to this contribution) I, too, welcome the report and welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs. Ellm...
Mark Hunter | 478 c1195 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the problems in funding the scheme. However, does he ag...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1192-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right—we are locked into that. The Local Government Association has suggested a wa...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1192 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made it clear that anomalies already exist in the funding formula and they need t...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1192 (Link to this contribution) We have made and continue to make the point that we feel that the funding that the Government have a...
Mark Hunter | 478 c1192 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been generous in giving way. He rightly said, in answer to the hon. Member fo...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1192 (Link to this contribution) We are not the party of government at this time. We are debating a scheme, which the Government intr...
David Wright | 478 c1191 (Link to this contribution) The simple question is: what is the hon. Gentleman's proposal?
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1191 (Link to this contribution) It is important that, when local people vote for their councillors, they can vote for extensions to ...
David Wright | 478 c1191 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned the minimum standards that the Government apply nationally, and then he...
David Wright | 478 c1190 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Eric Martlew | 478 c1188 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is drawing me into this; I did not want that to happen. The reality is that the C...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1188 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could run this one past the hon. Gentleman. If he thinks that I am mentioning only Conserv...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1188 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the mention of Worthing. In fact, the figure for the Worthing an...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1189 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister has had a number of suggestions about how the scheme could have been bet...
Norman Baker | 478 c1189 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the scheme is not functioning properly and that the financia...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1189 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point, but making pledges on behalf of the Treasury is slightly abo...
Daniel Kawczynski | 478 c1189 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way—it will give him a chance to look at his notes. He me...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1189-90 (Link to this contribution) I will not bore the House by going through the entire list of local authorities that responded to ou...
David Clelland | 478 c1190 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is correct that in the first round of the new concessionary fares system, when it...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1190 (Link to this contribution) It is encouraging that the Government have been keen to bail out some constituencies in the north-ea...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1187 (Link to this contribution) The Minister should not get carried away. Since April, there has been a significant increase in the...
Eric Martlew | 478 c1187 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1187 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. My speech contains good news and bad news; I will not ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 478 c1187 (Link to this contribution) This is meant to be about scrutinising the Government.
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1188 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says, this debate is about scrutinising the Government. We are not arguing with th...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1187 (Link to this contribution) By all means; I thought that I might have provoked the hon. Gentleman.
Eric Martlew | 478 c1187 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that most of those are Conservative authorities. Can the hon. Gentleman tell the House wha...
Eric Martlew | 478 c1188 (Link to this contribution) I interpret the hon. Gentleman's remarks as meaning that the Conservative party will take money away...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1188 (Link to this contribution) My point is that it is important that the money allocated for the scheme is allocated correctly. Ca...
David Drew | 478 c1183 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend also accept the obverse argument on the evaluation, expressed by some of the com...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1183-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an important issue. Discussions are needed between the transport authorities a...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1185 (Link to this contribution) To go back to the subject of concessionary fares, and as the hon. Lady has been talking about trains...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1186 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to emphasise that point. The Committee conducted an inquiry on the issue...
Robert Goodwill | 478 c1186 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs. Ellman) on the way in which she presen...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1186 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend describes concessionary bus fares as a relatively safe topic, but he might like to kn...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1185 (Link to this contribution) We received some limited evidence on that issue. We felt that we were not in a position to make reco...
Philip Hollobone | 478 c1185 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that those train operating companies and bus operators that allow off-duty police...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1185 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Indeed, we recommended that there should be additional staff involv...
Nicholas Winterton | 478 c1186 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has not really touched on the issue of the complexity of buying the best value ticket....
Nicholas Winterton | 478 c1182 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady address the inequality of the service in respect of those areas of the country wh...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1182 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and anticipates my next comment. The report considered ...
Peter Bottomley | 478 c1183 (Link to this contribution) I share the concern of my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton). Woul...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1183 (Link to this contribution) It was important that the scheme went ahead, and it is equally important that a proper evaluation is...
Tim Loughton | 478 c1183 (Link to this contribution) The point the hon. Lady makes rightly suggests that, as the Government have acknowledged, the number...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1183 (Link to this contribution) The important point the hon. Gentleman makes underlines the need for an evaluation of the way the sc...
Eric Martlew | 478 c1182 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that although the inequalities that have been talked about do exist, this ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 478 c1182 (Link to this contribution) I wish to reiterate what my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Winterton) said ab...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1182 (Link to this contribution) The absence of bus services in some areas is a very important issue, and it is one of the consequenc...
Louise Ellman | 478 c1182-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. A point that was consistently raised during the l...
Subjects
Disability Bus services Concessions Department for Transport Fares Finance Pensioners Older people Public transport Transport Committee Tickets
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