Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Monday, 23 February 2009, in the House of Lords.

Health Bill [HL]

Health Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage first day. Clause 1 agreed to as amended. Clause 2 agreed to. Clause 3 under consideration. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 708 c1-54GC
Session: 2008-09
Department: Department of Health
Legislative stage: Committee stage
Procedure: New clauses
Chamber / Committee: House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items: Health Bill (HL). Explanatory Notes HL Bill 18-EN also published. (Lords Minutes).
Thursday, 15 January 2009
Bills
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2009-1550
Monday, 23 February 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2009-1549
Monday, 23 February 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2009-1547
Monday, 23 February 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2009-1548
Monday, 23 February 2009
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions: Baroness Barker | 708 c22-3GC (Link to this contribution) That was a useful debate. I must admit, in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, that I have e...; Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c13GC (Link to this contribution) I will be very brief indeed. I have a single question for the opposition Front Bench. It arises from...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c16GC (Link to this contribution) In relation to the private pharmacists, I refer to any pharmacist providing NHS services. If the gen...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 708 c9-12GC (Link to this contribution) On Second Reading I said that I believed we should have had a Royal Commission on the health service...; Lord Walton of Detchant | 708 c6GC (Link to this contribution) I have the greatest respect for the noble Earl who proposed the amendment and the noble Baroness who...; Earl Howe | 708 c52GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 23 23: Clause 3, page 3, line 19, at end insert ““and lay a copy before Parliament””; Earl Howe | 708 c27GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 3: Availability, review and revision of NHS Constitution Amendment 9 9: Clause 3, page 3, l...; Lord Walton of Detchant | 708 c28GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Minister will readily agree to this helpful amendment, which strikes me as being a v...; Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c33-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am in serious danger because I forgot to declare my interests—I may feature in the Guardian tomorr...; Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c25GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be equally brief and support the contribution of the two previous speakers. Perhaps I may sl...; Earl Howe | 708 c23-4GC (Link to this contribution) Besides the matters that we have just discussed, another aspect of these provisions needs to be look...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 708 c22GC (Link to this contribution) The constitution is quite a thick document. In it there are some serious paragraphs about patient an...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 708 c22GC (Link to this contribution) But it refers to the public and patients.; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c21-2GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 4, 5 and 6 tabled by the noble Baronesses, Lady Barker and Lady Tonge, propose that all b...; Baroness Barker | 708 c18-20GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 5 and 6. What does this mean in practice? That is the key question ...; Earl Howe | 708 c18GC (Link to this contribution) In that case, one could argue that it is good for Governments to come to Parliament if they want to ...; Lord Warner | 708 c17-8GC (Link to this contribution) For the sake of clarity, I did not say that Governments should willy-nilly be able to change princip...; Earl Howe | 708 c17GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. This has been a good debate. Of course, I acknowle...; Earl Howe | 708 c13GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may answer that question now and get it out of the way. The broad answer is: yes, we are v...; Earl of Listowel | 708 c13GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, perhaps I may briefly make one or two points relating to subsection (2)...; Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c14GC (Link to this contribution) The NHS is such a large organisation that some of the people working within it and the patients usin...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c14-6GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 3 would place the principles of the NHS Plan, published in 2000, in the Bill. It would als...; Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 708 c12GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, as I had not intended to speak at this point, but, having heard the debate, I felt...; Lord Warner | 708 c8-9GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for not being at Second Reading but I was out of the country. I apolo...; Earl Howe | 708 c2-4GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that the amendment’s purpose will be immediately understood by the Committee. It is to sugges...; Baroness Barker | 708 c7-8GC (Link to this contribution) When I saw the amendment, it sparked the following questions in my mind: what happened in 1948? What...; Lord Naseby | 708 c1GC (Link to this contribution) I seek clarification on the subsequent date. I believe that the Bill states that there will be a rev...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c54GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Thursday at 2 pm.; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c53-4GC (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the amendment is to place a duty on the Secretary of State to lay a copy of any revis...; Baroness Barker | 708 c37GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 13 13: Clause 3, page 3, line 6, at end insert ““, local authorities””; Baroness Barker | 708 c37GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 16, 21 and 31. This group of amendments is on a similar tack. It co...; Lord Walton of Detchant | 708 c43-4GC (Link to this contribution) This is an exceptionally difficult and complex issue. It is clear that in relation to any review of ...; Baroness Wilkins | 708 c45GC (Link to this contribution) I join the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, in strongly supporting the points made by the noble Earl, Lo...; Baroness Barker | 708 c50GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 22 22: Clause 3, page 3, line 17, at end insert— ““( ) The review will take into account ...; Baroness Barker | 708 c50-1GC (Link to this contribution) As noble Lords will recognise by the drafting, this is a probing amendment. I apologise for the defi...; Earl Howe | 708 c28GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 25. We read in Clauses 3 and 4 that the Secretary of State has to en...; Lord Naseby | 708 c30GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. I suspect that most of us carry the European health insuran...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c35-6GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 11 would require all NHS bodies, including foundation trusts and special health authoritie...; Earl Howe | 708 c23GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 7 7: Clause 2, page 2, line 25, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of State shall publish...; Lord Warner | 708 c25GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot resist rising on this issue. Having been on the receiving end of many lectures over the yea...; Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 708 c22GC (Link to this contribution) May I ask a question of clarification? Having been brought up in the field of social care, where Bil...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c22GC (Link to this contribution) To add a point of clarity, the handbook is primarily an explanatory guide for patients, not guidance...; Earl Howe | 708 c20GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with all that the noble Baroness said as regards incorporating a duty to have regard to the ...; Baroness Barker | 708 c18GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 2: Duty to have regard to NHS Constitution Amendment 4 4: Clause 2, page 1, line 17, at end...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c2GC (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that that is correct. Amendment 1 agreed. Amendment 2 agreed. Clause 1, as am...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c1GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 1: NHS Constitution 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 8, leave out from ““State”” to ““, or”” and in...; Lord Colwyn | 708 c54GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Thursday 26 February at 2 pm.; Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 708 c53GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment of the noble Earl, Lord Howe, having said during the debate on the principle...; Earl Howe | 708 c37-9GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to the amendments in this group that are tabled in my name, Amendments 14, 15, 17, 19 ...; Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c42-3GC (Link to this contribution) I have put my name to one of these amendments concerning carers. Critical to the success of the NHS ...; Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c45GC (Link to this contribution) I very much support the noble Earl, Lord Howe, on specialised services. I declare an interest as som...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c45-6GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 13 proposes that the Secretary of State consult local authorities on any revision of the c...; Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c46GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend says that it is not specific in the sense of identifying individual bodies. However,...; Baroness Barker | 708 c49-50GC (Link to this contribution) On behalf of all noble Lords, I thank the Minister for the very detailed and considered response tha...; Baroness Barker | 708 c52GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister very much for that reply. It is worth bringing to mind that a year ago noble Lo...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c26-7GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 7 would place a duty on the Secretary of State to publish guidance on how bodies and perso...; Earl Howe | 708 c27GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment has nothing to do with returns to Richmond House or additional bureaucracy. I was quit...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 708 c30GC (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the handbook will be displayed in various places, including public libraries, doct...; Lord Walton of Detchant | 708 c32-3GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may raise a note of caution in relation to this amendment, based upon historical experienc...; Earl Howe | 708 c30-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate. I still have a feeling that the ...; Baroness Barker | 708 c31GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 11 11: Clause 3, page 3, line 5, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of State must ensure ...; Baroness Tonge | 708 c25GC (Link to this contribution) The spirit has moved me to respond after that speech by the noble Lord, Lord Warner. He has enunciat...; Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c20-1GC (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to those who put this handbook together. In the NHS, we bore for Britain when it comes...; Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c17GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the arguments that have been put about flexibility and ensuring that we have enough roo...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 708 c16GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Earl does that, I wonder whether I could clarify a couple of points. When I referre...; Baroness Cumberlege | 708 c4-6GC (Link to this contribution) Those noble Lords who took part in the Queen’s Speech on the health debate will remember that I am n...; Earl Howe | 708 c2GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 3 3: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Core principles (1) The NHS Const...; Lord Rea | 708 c8GC (Link to this contribution) Even before the noble Earl, Lord Howe, moved his amendment in his usual eloquent and persuasive mann...; Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 708 c6-7GC (Link to this contribution) I have great sympathy with the principle of the amendment, because it states that the core principle...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c1GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 2. Before I turn to those amendments—I do not intend to delay the Co...; Earl Howe | 708 c52-3GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment is designed to highlight an anomalous fact as regards this part of the Bill, a fact t...; Earl Howe | 708 c54GC (Link to this contribution) Those are important reassurances, which I take on board fully. I was reassured in particular by the ...; Baroness Pitkeathley | 708 c39-40GC (Link to this contribution) Your Lordships will not be surprised that I rise to speak in support of the amendments about carers—...; Lord Campbell-Savours | 708 c40-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am, as ever, somewhat confused and find it difficult to understand why a Labour Government have tr...; Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 708 c44-5GC (Link to this contribution) My friend the noble Lord, Lord Walton, is as usual highly eloquent but, as it is, we already have a ...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c46-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. I am referring to revision of the constitution, which could hap...; Baroness Masham of Ilton | 708 c49GC (Link to this contribution) How important does the Minister feel the specialised services are? He did not mention them.; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c49GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness will be fully aware—and I should probably declare an interest here—that I work in...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c51-2GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 22 would place a duty on the Secretary of State to take into account any impact on bringin...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c29-30GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 9 and 25 propose that the NHS Constitution and the handbook to the NHS Constitution be ““...; Baroness Tonge | 708 c29GC (Link to this contribution) I speak to Amendment 10, which follows on from the amendment moved by the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and...; Baroness Barker | 708 c31-2GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 11 brings to the attention of the Committee a substantial omission within the constitution...; Lord Darzi of Denham | 708 c30GC (Link to this contribution) Anything that we can do to enhance communication in this field will be very important. I am not sure...; Baroness Barker | 708 c36-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I start by assuring the noble Lord, Lord...; Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c34-5GC (Link to this contribution) Like the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, I declare an interest as chair of the Care Quality Commiss...; Lord Colwyn | 708 c1GC (Link to this contribution) Good afternoon. I start with the usual announcement that, if there is a Division in the Chamber whil...
Subjects: Disability Devolved matters Accountability Carers Administration Costs Health services Finance Expenditure EU law Health professions Local government NHS Patients Public consultation Staff Patients' rights Mental health services Standards Training Trade unions Research Social services Reorganisation Switzerland Local involvement networks
Legislation: Health Bill (HL) 2008-09
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Health Bill [HL]

Secondary information

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