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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 5 May 2009, in the House of Lords.

Political Parties and Elections Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
710 c167-228GC 
Session
2008-09
Department
Ministry of Justice
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c223-4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, referred to the impact of this, and whether it might treat political...
Lord Henley | 710 c200GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I can make my position clearer. I think the noble Lord will agree that he is try...
Show all contributions (109)
Lord Tyler | 710 c197-8GC (Link to this contribution) It is. That particular fund, which I think is now in the region of several million per Parliament, g...
Lord Bach | 710 c195GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask a question through the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. Who was the artist of this picture?...
Lord Bates | 710 c191GC (Link to this contribution) I am a new Member of the House, so perhaps your Lordships will forgive me for being a little slow on...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c189-90GC (Link to this contribution) I wish raise one point which my noble friend made and which I intended to raise earlier—that is, the...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c222-3GC (Link to this contribution) I follow the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, on the question of principle—I hope that my noble friend wi...
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 710 c167GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon as th...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c208GC (Link to this contribution) In a sense, I have to accept that the interpretation offered is in reductio ad absurdum correct. How...
Lord Marland | 710 c205GC (Link to this contribution) I am sympathetic to the thrust of the amendments, which have been thoughtfully put together. I am at...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c204-5GC (Link to this contribution) I do not in any way want to imply a degree of conspiracy between the noble Baroness, Lady Gould of P...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c205-7GC (Link to this contribution) I must confess that I did not entirely follow all of that debate, because much of it seemed to be ab...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c208GC (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend give way again? I am sorry to press him but I should like to have this on the r...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c207GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think we are saying that we particularly want to endorse it; we are saying that it is a rea...
Lord Rennard | 710 c201GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 114 114: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— "Local pre-candidacy spending ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c199GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that his amendment is similar apart from one small area. It is obviously the pro...
Lord Henley | 710 c199GC (Link to this contribution) I have tabled Amendment 113 in this group, which would achieve much the same as the Government’s ame...
Lord Bach | 710 c200-1GC (Link to this contribution) It seems that there are congratulations all round, not only going back 20 years but also to the nobl...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c200GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that the noble Lord does not see that it is likely to change. I am trying to establish ...
Lord Bates | 710 c196GC (Link to this contribution) I hope the noble Lord was not making the point that that sum from salaries and allowances was purely...
Lord Bach | 710 c195GC (Link to this contribution) The Bill is intended to be limited to deal with those matters on which we can find general agreement...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c193GC (Link to this contribution) If my noble friend remembers, we had this conversation outside the Committee upstairs in the meeting...
Lord Marland | 710 c192GC (Link to this contribution) It was, appropriately, a portrait of the noble Baroness, Lady Thatcher.
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 710 c221GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, on the proposed new clause. As he indicated, I was a member...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c216GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to get the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, to his feet again, but was he actually a...
Lord Tyler | 710 c212-4GC (Link to this contribution) We turn now to an issue with which a great many Members of your Lordships’ House, and certainly a gr...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c214-5GC (Link to this contribution) One problem for me in this whole business has been the fact that I have spent the past eight years i...
Lord Bach | 710 c177-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the support from the two noble Lords who have spoken. My noble friend Lady Gould a...
Lord Tyler | 710 c180-2GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly also to Amendment 109, although my noble friend Lord Rennard may have somethin...
Lord Tyler | 710 c180GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 108 108: After Clause 12, insert the following new Clause— "£50,000 cap on donations (1) ...
Lord Bach | 710 c179-80GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 105 and 106 105: After Clause 10, insert the following new Clause— "Control of loans etc...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c186GC (Link to this contribution) I have no option but to stand up and respond to that. I found the noble Lord’s argument on governmen...
Lord Rennard | 710 c186GC (Link to this contribution) I am not for a minute suggesting that some of the necessary public health information, for example, ...
Lord Rennard | 710 c184-6GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can please the noble Baroness by giving first some of the most notorious examples under th...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c189GC (Link to this contribution) I try to speak briefly on amendments which are not my own and I want to say only a very few words. I...
Viscount Tenby | 710 c188-9GC (Link to this contribution) Unlike almost everyone else speaking here today, I have not had the benefit of labouring in the poli...
Lord Bach | 710 c167GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 97 97: After Clause 9, insert the following new Clause— ""Reasonable excuse" in relation ...
Lord Bates | 710 c171GC (Link to this contribution) My request for an illustration or example related to the difference between what might be termed a r...
Lord Bates | 710 c174GC (Link to this contribution) This measure is fairly straightforward; we recognise that it is a necessary tightening of the PPERA ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c225-6GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments essentially propose a system of gift aid for political donations, enabling political ...
Lord Tyler | 710 c223GC (Link to this contribution) I endorse the amendment, to which I have put my name. I am slightly disappointed that the noble Lord...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c224GC (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to support the proposal, with an eye on the clock. I do so because the amendment has ...
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c224-5GC (Link to this contribution) I endorse my noble friend’s remarks. I add my support, too, to what the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Sa...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c226GC (Link to this contribution) Irony is in the eye of the beholder and the beholder in this case is the great British public. While...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure the noble Lord would not argue that in a splendid taxation system there are not anomalies ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c204GC (Link to this contribution) I have only a sentence to add. I completely agree with the thrust of the amendments. The problem is ...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c204GC (Link to this contribution) I make one point: I wish we had fixed-term Parliaments because I believe it would solve many of thes...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c207GC (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend give way? He is saying that after 10 years of our Government it would be permis...
Lord Rennard | 710 c201-3GC (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments attempts to set out an alternative to the proposals in the Bill, which we c...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c200GC (Link to this contribution) I shall intervene briefly. The principle of the Dodo in Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland is being ex...
Lord Bach | 710 c198GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 112 112: Clause 13, page 13, line 36, at end insert— "(4) In section 155 of the 2000 Act ...
Lord Tyler | 710 c196GC (Link to this contribution) We had better move on. I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson—who, I am sorry to see, is not in...
Lord Marland | 710 c196GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister is asking me to stretch my memory. Clearly it was not the artist but the quality of the...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c195GC (Link to this contribution) Is this not another example of the consensus not working? Why did we not introduce provisions in thi...
Lord Bach | 710 c191-2GC (Link to this contribution) We have had a fascinating debate and I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. The contribut...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c221GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to trouble the noble Lord, because I support the amendment, but does he have any idea wha...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 710 c221-2GC (Link to this contribution) I was intending to come to that. It would obviously depend on the level of take-up. However, the fac...
Lord Tyler | 710 c217-8GC (Link to this contribution) I can respond quite speedily. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, is of course quoting just one o...
Lord Goodhart | 710 c218-20GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 120A and 132B would enable donors to obtain tax relief on small or moderate donations to ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c216GC (Link to this contribution) The point is that we all get involved in these sort of things because of how the law is framed. On r...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c215-6GC (Link to this contribution) It may be helpful if I make a brief intervention. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, and I have ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c216GC (Link to this contribution) Can I just clarify that the letter says, after the signature, ""P.S. A postal vote application form ...
Lord Rennard | 710 c210-1GC (Link to this contribution) I asked a question about when the campaign begins. It seems clear that, if the Bill is not amended a...
Lord Tyler | 710 c211-2GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 119 119: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— "Qualifying expenditure In the...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 710 c178GC (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister take a question arising from his reference to Clause 10? I want to know who these...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c182-3GC (Link to this contribution) I was waiting to see whether the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, would come in first and talk about the tr...
Lord Bach | 710 c178-9GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments 100 to 104 100: Clause 10, page 10, line 7, leave out "a notice to the Commission" and i...
Lord Bach | 710 c178GC (Link to this contribution) I did not think it would be very long before the noble Lord caught me out. I do not know the answer ...
Lord Marland | 710 c188GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord probably knows, funds must be raised by the potential leader of a party to fight t...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c188GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord referred to candidates "dipping into the trough of our donors". What does that mean?
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c186-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his intervention, but it does not influence my thinking. The noble Lord’s...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 710 c170GC (Link to this contribution) Is the choice of language, "without reasonable excuse", based upon a settled body of case law in oth...
Lord Rennard | 710 c174-5GC (Link to this contribution) I briefly welcome the amendments, as they obviously address significant loopholes in the 2000 legisl...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c173-4GC (Link to this contribution) Government Amendments 98, 105, 139 and 140 introduce new requirements for members associations. Gove...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c171-3GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 98 98: After Clause 9, insert the following new Clause— "Control of donations to members ...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c177GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for the amendments. I was confused when I first read this clause because it ...
Lord Bach | 710 c175GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 10: Control of donations to holders of elective office: compliance officers Amendment 99 99...
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c225GC (Link to this contribution) I found the arguments of the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, and my noble friend Lord MacGregor compellin...
Lord Tyler | 710 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Minister but does he not see that there is an essential irony in that many charit...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 710 c226GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister explain why it is right to allow tax relief for inheritance purposes but not for in...
Lord Goodhart | 710 c226-8GC (Link to this contribution) By my watch, I reckon I have about four minutes to go and I will finish well within that time. I am...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c228GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until tomorrow at 3.45 pm.
Lord Haskel | 710 c208GC (Link to this contribution) A Division has been called. The Committee stands adjourned for 10 minutes. Sitting suspended for a ...
Lord Henley | 710 c203GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, will not be surprised when I say that we cannot offer him much comfort...
Lord Henley | 710 c200GC (Link to this contribution) Throughout the Bill, in both Houses, I, my noble friend Lord Bates and colleagues in another place h...
Lord Bach | 710 c199GC (Link to this contribution) In another place, the Opposition brought forward amendments to require that the thresholds of the 20...
Lord Marland | 710 c195GC (Link to this contribution) I need to qualify that. I would not like it to be taken on record that it is a £70,000 portrait; my ...
Lord Tyler | 710 c195GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. It has been useful to try to te...
Lord Bach | 710 c193-5GC (Link to this contribution) I know my noble friend’s view on this. We do not feel it right to legislate unless there is broad co...
Lord Bach | 710 c192-3GC (Link to this contribution) I rather wish that I had not asked. This group of amendments relates to the establishment of a cap ...
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 710 c191GC (Link to this contribution) There is a Division in the House. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes. Sitting suspended for ...
Lord Bates | 710 c190-1GC (Link to this contribution) I have a few points on the amendments. It is difficult not to be sympathetic with many perspectives ...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c216GC (Link to this contribution) I am certainly of the view—and this is one reason why I am taking part in this Grand Committee—that ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c216-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be careful not to get into the Campbell-Savours-Brooke debate. I have some notes here. The o...
Lord Goodhart | 710 c218GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 120A 120A: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— "Tax relief on donations Tax...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c208-10GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 114 goes on to state that, where boundaries change between elections, the Electoral Commis...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c216GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that elucidation. The only way in which I can verify whether that was an action of...
Lord Bates | 710 c177GC (Link to this contribution) We, too, very much agree with the amendment—or perhaps I should say not "very much", in the sense th...
Lord Rennard | 710 c183-4GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness, Lady Gould of Potternewton, is so anxious that I speak, I feel obliged to ris...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c184GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt, but can the noble Lord give some examples?
Lord Marland | 710 c187-8GC (Link to this contribution) One cannot help but agree with the sentiment of the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. Having...
Lord Bach | 710 c167-9GC (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 97, which proposes a new clause after Clause 9, I shall speak also to Amendments...
Lord Bates | 710 c169GC (Link to this contribution) We welcome this amendment. The arguments that I shall deploy are very much those we have deployed in...
Lord Bach | 710 c170-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to both noble Lords who have spoken on this matter. First, on the points raised by the...
Lord Bach | 710 c171GC (Link to this contribution) I use again my basic example of the treasurer whose spouse suddenly becomes ill. It may not have bee...
Lord Bach | 710 c175-7GC (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments is concerned with Clause 10, which allows for the appointment of a complian...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c175GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lords, Lord Rennard and Lord Bates, for their support—we love support for governme...
Subjects
Costs Finance Elections Donors Expenditure Electoral Commission Members Political parties Loans Regulation Trade unions Tax allowances Taxation
Legislation
Political Parties and Elections Bill 2007-08 to 2008-09
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk