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Debate on Thursday, 4 June 2009, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Hutton of Furness. The answering member was Liam Fox.

Defence in the World

Debate on a motion that this House has considered defence in the world.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
493 c427-86 
Session
2008-09
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Deposited Paper DEP2009-1812
Thursday, 25 June 2009
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Liam Fox | 493 c439 (Link to this contribution) May I add my tribute on behalf of all my Conservative colleagues to the military personnel and civil...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c437-9 (Link to this contribution) I share some thinking in common with the hon. Gentleman. The conflict prevention pool is a useful in...
Show all contributions (107)
Madeleine Moon | 493 c446 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman clearly has poor eyesight if he needs my help in ascertaining that.
Liam Fox | 493 c446 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady speaks of the appropriateness of the timing of the debate. Just for the Hansard record...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c446 (Link to this contribution) I listened with great interest to the speech of the hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox), but I cann...
Liam Fox | 493 c441-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that clarification—although I am sure that the Secretary of State meant to say "Ir...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c441 (Link to this contribution) No, we should not have reached this point. Unfortunately we have, but I can assure the hon. Gentlema...
Liam Fox | 493 c439-40 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. It says everything about the priorities of the current Government and their busines...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c431 (Link to this contribution) I strongly agree with the right hon. Gentleman. It is ultimately for the Pakistan Government to addr...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c435 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman suggests that the rules of engagement are the problem. It is nothing to do with t...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c435 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the Secretary of State is addressing the point. Why in that particular case did ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c435-7 (Link to this contribution) Again, I have a lot of sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman. The piracy mission is clearly dealing...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c435 (Link to this contribution) To what extent does the Secretary of State believe that commanders on the ground or at sea are const...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c432-4 (Link to this contribution) I have not had any discussion with my opposite number in Pakistan about that, because those are prim...
Barry Gardiner | 493 c431-2 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is being most indulgent in giving way to Members of all parties. Has he had any...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c434-5 (Link to this contribution) I have a lot of sympathy with the hon. Gentleman's point. However, I do not believe that there is an...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c434 (Link to this contribution) Yesterday, a Ministry of Defence spokesman confirmed that a British frigate had intervened on pirate...
Crispin Blunt | 493 c437 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is moving on from the issue of resources, but I should like briefly to bring ...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c430 (Link to this contribution) In the emphasis that the British and the Americans are placing on persuading the Afghan people to ac...
Barry Gardiner | 493 c428 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that the country of India, perhaps more than any other, has experie...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c427-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House has considered the matter of defence in the world." I am delighted t...
Liam Fox | 493 c431 (Link to this contribution) What discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Foreign Secretary about the potential for t...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c430-1 (Link to this contribution) The Afghan people have those freedoms. Ultimately, as I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Brent,...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c430 (Link to this contribution) The problem is that the Bonn constitution was constructed perhaps rather artificially at a time when...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c430 (Link to this contribution) The constitution of Afghanistan is a matter for the Afghan people. The current constitution has been...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c431 (Link to this contribution) I have regular discussions with my right hon. Friend about that, and I am happy to brief the hon. Ge...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c431 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to hear what the Secretary of State is saying about helping education in Pakistan....
Madeleine Moon | 493 c449 (Link to this contribution) I shall certainly give way to the courteous hon. Lady, as opposed to the giggling people on the Cons...
Ann Winterton | 493 c449 (Link to this contribution) As someone who has been interested in defence for some time and has built up a slight expertise in o...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c448-9 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if the hon. Gentleman thinks I am talking rubbish—I obviously spoke the same rubbish whe...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c448 (Link to this contribution) I fail to see what the hon. Gentleman is trying to achieve by that question. [Interruption.] May I c...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c446-8 (Link to this contribution) I do apologise; I am a product of a comprehensive education. It is said that freedom is never free,...
William Cash | 493 c448 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that in relation to defence and the European Union there is a great deal to...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c446 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman shouts "one" from a sedentary position—but, on the other hand, it is me.
Madeleine Moon | 493 c449 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for those remarks. I can confirm to her that my colleagues on the Defence Comm...
Nick Harvey | 493 c453-5 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with all that. If at the end of the process, which we should approach in exactly th...
Nick Harvey | 493 c450-1 (Link to this contribution) I always welcome the opportunity to debate defence in the world, but I echo the observations of the ...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c451 (Link to this contribution) I want to refer to the hon. Gentleman's earlier point about the timing of the debate. My hon. Friend...
Nick Harvey | 493 c451-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. I suspect we will never know quite why it was, but th...
Liam Fox | 493 c453 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there is also a need for better predictability and empiricism in ...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c449 (Link to this contribution) May I put on the record that I confirm precisely what my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Ann W...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c449 (Link to this contribution) I can confirm that the right hon. Gentleman, the Chairman of the Defence Committee, has been one of ...
Bob Russell | 493 c450 (Link to this contribution) An increasing number of young ladies are now playing roles in the armed forces. What is the hon. Lad...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c450 (Link to this contribution) We have women in the front line in all sorts of roles, and women have shown their capacity to meet t...
Liam Fox | 493 c456 (Link to this contribution) I hope that one of the most important issues that the Defence Committee will examine is Britain's ab...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c455-6 (Link to this contribution) I want to begin, if I may, by saying that this debate is an absolute disgrace. It is quite wrong tha...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c457 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. I pay tribute to President Obama for his speech today in Egypt, in which he said—v...
Liam Fox | 493 c457-8 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is a respected and long-serving Member, who has also served in government. From...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c456-7 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, who has put his finger on a most important point. That is one ...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c458-9 (Link to this contribution) That is the current Chinese attitude. I suspect that as China's requirements for more and more resou...
Bob Russell | 493 c459 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman said that the size of the Army was about 100,000. Is it his understanding t...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c458 (Link to this contribution) I think that there are a lot of reasons for that. I suspect that one of the reasons is that western ...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c458 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman a second time, but he is talking about an area that...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c459-60 (Link to this contribution) I think that the figure is 9 per cent., but, yes, I believe that it is necessary to have larger arme...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c460 (Link to this contribution) I desperately hope that my hon. Friend is right. I feel that if the public are asked whether they th...
Gerald Howarth | 493 c460 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend suggests that the public may not be as supportive of the armed forces as they o...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c460 (Link to this contribution) Staying with the theme of the public's attitude towards defence spending, we in the House of Commons...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c460-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is quite right, which is why conducting this debate on this particular day is such a ...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c461 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes some important points, which we should all be prepared to address. Le...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 493 c461-2 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that my party would cut defence. Frankly, however, I very much doubt that there will b...
Ann Winterton | 493 c463 (Link to this contribution) On the day when this debate was announced, I asked the Leader of the House at business questions whe...
Ann Winterton | 493 c463-4 (Link to this contribution) Well, both are equally bad; I would much prefer that he was cheerful. [Interruption.] He is smiling ...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c465-6 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Lady studies this issue and always tries to bring some thought to it, but she m...
Ann Winterton | 493 c466 (Link to this contribution) It may be very well thought of by some, but I would not like to hazard a guess as to how many young ...
Gerald Howarth | 493 c464 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows, I saw the Vector before it was unveiled. I happened to be driving the ordin...
Ann Winterton | 493 c464-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. I was once given a briefing at the MOD when I argued with a young...
Crispin Blunt | 493 c467 (Link to this contribution) I concur with the remarks that have been made so far on the timing of today's debate on the day of t...
Ann Winterton | 493 c466-7 (Link to this contribution) May I continue? Again on Monday, the Minister with responsibility for defence equipment and support,...
Ann Winterton | 493 c466 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the right hon. Gentleman does not think I was born yesterday. War is bloody and people g...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c466 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is suggesting that there is some easy alternative that would give our people the capab...
Crispin Blunt | 493 c471-2 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister will forgive me, I shall not give way. I want to conclude my remarks, as two Members...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c472 (Link to this contribution) I echo my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr. Blunt) and join the chorus of disapproval for the ...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c475-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend to some extent, but even he is dealing at a sub-strategic level. That le...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c472 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the stream of criticism from Members about the timing of the debate, and I unders...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c472 (Link to this contribution) I see the Minister itching to intervene.
Crispin Blunt | 493 c474 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct. However, until military operations are properly co-ordinated across the i...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c472-4 (Link to this contribution) I was not throwing blame; in fact, I was trying to avoid that. We must change the current system, a...
Bob Russell | 493 c477-8 (Link to this contribution) The international community is preparing to commemorate the 65th anniversary of D-day, but in Colche...
Crispin Blunt | 493 c478 (Link to this contribution) It is easy to criticise our European partners in this matter, but we should remember that the author...
Julian Lewis | 493 c480-1 (Link to this contribution) I am glad my hon. Friend says so. Dr. Kilcullen continues:""Building such a capability is perhaps th...
Bob Russell | 493 c478-9 (Link to this contribution) This is a NATO exercise as far as I am concerned, and the consequences of whatever goes wrong in Afg...
Julian Lewis | 493 c479-80 (Link to this contribution) I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) on what he has just said. I w...
Julian Lewis | 493 c481-2 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid not, because I have three minutes left. Please forgive me. I was impressed by what the ...
Nick Harvey | 493 c481 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Julian Lewis | 493 c481 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point, but even in the context of debating a war, it would be better not only to have ...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c481 (Link to this contribution) Traditionally, in the past few decades, we have conducted such debates in peacetime. We are now deba...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c482-4 (Link to this contribution) Despite the lack of density on the Benches, we have had our usual wide-ranging, thoughtful and infor...
Bernard Jenkin | 493 c484 (Link to this contribution) I just wish to make it clear that I am sure that the rules of engagement reflect the legal advice th...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c484-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but whose law needs to be changed? We have to take these steps while accepting what the Kenyans...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c485 (Link to this contribution) That soon! I have agreed to finish my speech shortly, and I am aware that I have not managed to rep...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c485 (Link to this contribution) The Opposition have claimed that no one was listening to this debate. I can advise my hon. Friend th...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c486 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being disingenuous. He and his party pushed for the topical debates. If we are...
Liam Fox | 493 c486 (Link to this contribution) It is clear to anyone who has followed the debate that the complaint has not been about the number o...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c486 (Link to this contribution) No, I am about to conclude. I will respond in writing to Members whose points I have not managed to ...
Madeleine Moon | 493 c457 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman talked about the importance of engaging with not only our American but our ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 493 c428-30 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do talk to the Indian Defence Minister, and I was able to do so particularly in the afte...
Crispin Blunt | 493 c467-71 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, and I listened with interest to my hon. Friend's remarks about military vehicles. I commend ...
Bob Ainsworth | 493 c485-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that information, but in response to the many hon. Members who have compl...
Subjects
Armed forces Defence Armoured fighting vehicles Finance Iraq International cooperation India Peacekeeping operations Politics and government Piracy Pakistan Terrorism Afghanistan Reconstruction Somalia Arctic Military aid
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