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Debate on bill on Monday, 14 February 2011, in the House of Commons, led by Justine Greening. The answering member was Angela Eagle.

Budget Responsibility and National Audit Bill [Lords]

Budget Responsibility and National Audit Bill (HL). Second Reading debate agreed to on question. Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, on Report, Third reading, and any other proceedings, agreed to on question. Queen's recommendation signified. Money resolution agreed to on question. Ways and means resolution agreed to on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
523 c746-84 
Session
2010-12
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Programme motions
Money resolutions
Ways and means resolutions
Queen's recommendation
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Justine Greening | 523 c749-50 (Link to this contribution) I think that demonstrates the value of the OBR. For the first time we shall have a set of entirely i...
Justine Greening | 523 c747 (Link to this contribution) No doubt my hon. Friend will be encouraged to learn of our belief that our efforts to cut back-offic...
Show all contributions (101)
Kate Green | 523 c747 (Link to this contribution) I understand the Government's objective to reduce public debt over a fixed period, but what flexibil...
Justine Greening | 523 c747-8 (Link to this contribution) I have just defined that flexibility. Although we want to balance the structural current deficit by ...
Sajid Javid | 523 c748 (Link to this contribution) The Minister refers to praise from the international community. If she was referring to the Internat...
Justine Greening | 523 c748 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we will have an altogether more constructive relationship with the IMF. In fact, it has ...
Claire O'Neill | 523 c748 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree that the problem when the Treasury sets rules of that kind is that such rule...
Justine Greening | 523 c748-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. We cannot allow the Treasury to be judge and jury. That was...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c749 (Link to this contribution) The transparency that the Bill brings to finances is part of an overall package of transparency. My ...
Justine Greening | 523 c749 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The fact that, for the first time, official forecasts will be prepared by a...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 523 c749 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree that growth is key to economic recovery, and that the recent negative growth...
Justine Greening | 523 c746 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. Fiscal responsibility is the overriding pri...
William Cash | 523 c746-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may remember that before the election, a number of us took grave exception to the fac...
Justine Greening | 523 c747 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The way to provide that guarantee and certainty is to pass ...
Mark Field | 523 c746 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister add one more criterion to her list—that a moral case needs to be made for ensuring...
Justine Greening | 523 c746 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely. Far too often we fail to make the point that the penalty for not dealing with th...
Speaker | 523 c747 (Link to this contribution) Order. I would be grateful if the Minister answered that question in relation to the Bill before the...
Edward Leigh | 523 c747 (Link to this contribution) The Government have a serious political difficulty, to which the Justice Secretary referred over the...
Angela Eagle | 523 c756 (Link to this contribution) We do not have a presidential system: we have a prime ministerial system and the leader of the gover...
Justine Greening | 523 c756 (Link to this contribution) I completely disagree with much of what the hon. Lady says, not least given that her Government left...
Speaker | 523 c757 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are getting tempted once again. If Members stick to the Bill, that will be helpful.
Mark Field | 523 c756-7 (Link to this contribution) Although the hon. Lady makes a fair point about explicit mandate, it is surely also the case that th...
Andrea Leadsom | 523 c755 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady may be aware from reading the Treasury Committee's report into the original independen...
Angela Eagle | 523 c755-6 (Link to this contribution) This concerns those who allowed the bringing forward of estimates of job losses caused by the Govern...
Justine Greening | 523 c755 (Link to this contribution) It is only right that I should put on record the comments of Sir Alan Budd, in his report on the pro...
Angela Eagle | 523 c754-5 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Let me be the first to say that the Opposition support an independent...
Angela Eagle | 523 c755 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in due course. The OBR must work hard to establish a reputation for independence af...
Speaker | 523 c754 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are in danger of going off into past subjects. The hon. Lady may be tempted to answer, but...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 523 c754 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the hon. Lady on the difficulty of forecasting, as even the best economic fore...
Angela Eagle | 523 c754 (Link to this contribution) The important thing to note about forecasts, particularly those on the tax take, is that it is diffi...
Matt Hancock | 523 c754 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Lady was not about to move on from talking about forecasts having spoken onl...
Angela Eagle | 523 c753-4 (Link to this contribution) The Bill makes changes to the responsibilities exercised by the Treasury in fiscal policy making, es...
Justine Greening | 523 c750-3 (Link to this contribution) I welcome that helpful intervention. My hon. Friend will no doubt be aware that the Treasury Committ...
Andrea Leadsom | 523 c750 (Link to this contribution) As a member of the Treasury Committee, may I say that it was incredibly valuable to be able to chall...
Justine Greening | 523 c750 (Link to this contribution) The OBR makes an independent fiscal forecast and assessment of the economy. The Treasury may or may ...
Peter Bone | 523 c750 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify something for me? If the OBR says that growth will be x in the next year, ...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c776 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady has said, the OBR will indeed stop a Chancellor from saying, ““Growth is going to b...
Sheila Gilmore | 523 c776-7 (Link to this contribution) Our views of when it is appropriate to borrow and what the Government should do about the economy ar...
Stephen Williams | 523 c775-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I do agree and the OBR as it develops will be able to draw on the expertise in the Treasury,...
Sheila Gilmore | 523 c776 (Link to this contribution) I seem to be fated—this is the second time in two weeks—to be the last Back Bencher to contribute to...
David Rutley | 523 c775 (Link to this contribution) As hon. Members have said, one of the opportunities provided by the OBR will be more expertise from ...
Kerry McCarthy | 523 c778-9 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting, if somewhat truncated debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh ...
Andrew Griffiths | 523 c777 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the hon. Lady's analogy. She does not like talk of the credit card being ma...
Sheila Gilmore | 523 c777-8 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, I do not agree with that. These two analogies are interesting ones, in that they show the d...
Stephen Williams | 523 c777 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is talking about debt being run up for investment. Of course the previous Government p...
Sheila Gilmore | 523 c777 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is wrong about that. Up to the point of the recession, most of the borrowing was ...
Kate Green | 523 c772 (Link to this contribution) Like colleagues throughout the House, I welcome putting the Office for Budget Responsibility on a st...
Alison McGovern | 523 c772 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend think that in addition to that, the Government ought to consider the effect of u...
Kate Green | 523 c772-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Some superficially appealing terminology has been bandied a...
Stephen Williams | 523 c773-4 (Link to this contribution) I guess that you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and many hon. Members have a collection of fridge magnets. I ha...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c774 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. My hon. Friend was trying to make the point that the key word in Offic...
Stephen Williams | 523 c774-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Predictions and forecasting are at the heart of the B...
Alison McGovern | 523 c774 (Link to this contribution) On that very note, which was the more prudent: putting the country into a situation in which people ...
Stephen Williams | 523 c774 (Link to this contribution) I was talking about events prior to the crash, rather than the policy response to the crash itself, ...
Speaker | 523 c774 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are getting tempted into an area where we should not be. We are dealing with Second Readin...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c766 (Link to this contribution) My point is proved by that sedentary intervention. Labour Members think that the whole financial cri...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c767 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. Needless to say, one of the very first things that our Chancell...
Alison McGovern | 523 c767 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke), whose robust ar...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c766 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady suggests, previous forecasts and attempts at caution came from many different angle...
Matt Hancock | 523 c766 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend know that in 1995 the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown)...
David Rutley | 523 c769-72 (Link to this contribution) Like other hon. Members, I will focus my remarks on the measures that will put the Office for Budget...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c767 (Link to this contribution) As much as I agree that the golden rule was important, how does the hon. Lady respond to the fact th...
Alison McGovern | 523 c767-9 (Link to this contribution) Understanding the business cycle has been the job of economists since the dismal science began. The ...
Sajid Javid | 523 c762 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will note that in her closing remarks the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) told th...
William Bain | 523 c762-4 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. In giving the Bill's proposals qualified support, Oppositi...
Sajid Javid | 523 c764 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know that Government debt stands at £1 trillion. According to a recent ONS r...
William Bain | 523 c765 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention, because it gives me the opportunity to compare and contrast the...
Speaker | 523 c765 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am trying to allow some freedom, but we are in danger of straying off Second Reading and on...
William Bain | 523 c765 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for that guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker. To conclude my response to the hon. Gentle...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c765 (Link to this contribution) In this debate on the Bill and the Office for Budget Responsibility, I would like to focus on the wo...
David Rutley | 523 c765 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend has noticed that the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said:"““If an ...
Alec Shelbrooke | 523 c765-6 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful for my hon. Friend's intervention, which makes my point. If the OBR had been ther...
Mark Field | 523 c760-1 (Link to this contribution) As I recall it, the point was conceded by Opposition Members, not by those on this side. The releva...
Angela Eagle | 523 c760 (Link to this contribution) Having conceded that point, the hon. Gentleman now seems to be saying that the best solution is to h...
Mark Field | 523 c760 (Link to this contribution) I fear that we are going to go over old ground, but let us do it.
Angela Eagle | 523 c760 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mark Field | 523 c760 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. In the one case in which the hon. Member for Wallasey ...
Matt Hancock | 523 c760 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) cast aspersions on the ability of my right hon. and learned ...
Mark Field | 523 c759-60 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me so early in the debate. As you know, I have to attend a...
Angela Eagle | 523 c759 (Link to this contribution) No, because I am about to finish. Our dispute is with the Government's plans, not with the OBR's for...
Angela Eagle | 523 c758-9 (Link to this contribution) It is important to see what the forecasts are and what they mean at this stage of economic recovery....
Angela Eagle | 523 c758 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but the Bank of England will also forecast for its own use growth and other aspects which it ne...
Justine Greening | 523 c758 (Link to this contribution) May I ask the hon. Lady a straightforward question? The Office for Budget Responsibility assesses th...
Alison McGovern | 523 c758 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that we have another independent forecaster, the Bank of England, which wa...
Angela Eagle | 523 c757-8 (Link to this contribution) This is how we can get into difficulty with forecasts, which are static when they are made but apply...
Andrea Leadsom | 523 c758 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way again. On a point of clarification, the issue of multi...
Angela Eagle | 523 c758 (Link to this contribution) In order to fulfil its duties, the Bank of England produces its own forecasts, which do not always a...
Speaker | 523 c757 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members have been tempting us away from the Bill, but I am sure that the hon. Lady wants...
Angela Eagle | 523 c757 (Link to this contribution) There is a difference between having an economic policy that is put into place directly after a gene...
Matt Hancock | 523 c757 (Link to this contribution) I enjoy debating with the hon. Lady, so I am extremely grateful for her giving way. She has just pra...
Angela Eagle | 523 c757 (Link to this contribution) The important issue is how the independent forecasts interact with what happens in the economy and h...
David Gauke | 523 c781-3 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate and it would be fair to say that there has been some consensus fro...
Kerry McCarthy | 523 c780-1 (Link to this contribution) I am not denying it. The hon. Member for Bristol West said that it was an example of Liberal Democra...
Kerry McCarthy | 523 c779-80 (Link to this contribution) I knew it began with a W. Anyway, she is probably very familiar with this quote:"““The only function...
Angela Eagle | 523 c755 (Link to this contribution) Nevertheless, independence has to be perceived to be there too. No matter what individuals behind th...
Alison McGovern | 523 c766 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman rightly says that we should be cautious. How successful does he feel that previou...
Mark Field | 523 c762 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to go too far into the past, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right. We now recognise ...
Subjects
Fiscal policy Economic situation Economic policy Forecasts National Audit Office Public finance Public sector debt Office for Budget Responsibility
Legislation
Budget Responsibility and National Audit Bill (HL) 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk