Debate on bill on Wednesday, 20 November 2013, in the House of Commons, led by Philip Dunne. The answering member was Lord Beamish.

Defence Reform Bill

Report stage. New clause 3 negatived on division (252 to 306). New clause 6 negatived on division (235 to 315). Schedule 1, amendment made. Third reading. Agreed to on question. Bill passed.

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 570 cc1259-1340
Session: 2013-14
Department: Ministry of Defence
Legislative stage: Third reading; Report stage
Procedure: New clauses
Chamber / Committee: House of Commons chamber
Related items: Future army 2020.
Wednesday, 5 December 2012
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Defence acquisition. Defence Committee seventh report with formal minutes and written evidence.
Tuesday, 29 January 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Defence acquisition: Government response to the Committee's seventh report of session 2012-13. Defence Committee first special report.
Wednesday, 8 May 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Future Army 2020.
Wednesday, 10 July 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Defence acquisition.
Wednesday, 4 September 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Future Army 2020.
Tuesday, 8 October 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Defence Reform Bill 2013-14. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 22 October 2013
Bills
House of Commons; Future Army 2020.
Tuesday, 5 November 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions: Julian Brazier | 570 c1260 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.; John Bercow | 570 cc1260-2 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 2—Duties and powers of...; Julian Brazier | 570 cc1262-3 (Link to this contribution)
It is a huge pleasure to speak to new clause 1. Let me also say how much I enjoyed serving on the...; Bob Ainsworth | 570 c1263 (Link to this contribution)
indicated assent.; Julian Brazier | 570 c1263 (Link to this contribution)
I am glad to see the right hon. Gentleman nodding.
More recently in Afghanistan, General Jo...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1263 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way at this early stage in the debate. I hope it might...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1263 (Link to this contribution)
May I express my thanks to my right hon. Friend? I am delighted by that, and I know that the know...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1263 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way and I pay tribute to the work he has done over...; Andrew Selous | 570 c1263 (Link to this contribution)
Sour grapes.; Lord Beamish | 570 c1264 (Link to this contribution)
It is not sour grapes; it is a matter of fact. When the Opposition tabled that amendment in Commi...; Julian Brazier | 570 cc1264-5 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think the gathering of individual statistics should be a statutory matter, but the fact ...; Heather Wheeler | 570 c1265 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Julian Brazier | 570 c1265 (Link to this contribution)
Heather.; Heather Wheeler | 570 c1265 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way.; John Bercow | 570 c1265 (Link to this contribution)
It was good of the hon. Gentleman to remind the hon. Lady of her own name.
2.45 pm; Heather Wheeler | 570 c1265 (Link to this contribution)
I forget many things, Mr Speaker.
Having sat in Committee week in, week out, with my hon. F...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1265 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her kind words. My essential point is that Parliament recogni...; Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 570 c1265 (Link to this contribution)
For the record, it is not just a question of the mess that it all was; it is a question of the me...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
I am not sure that I heard the last few words of the hon. Lady’s intervention; would she mind rep...; Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
I was suggesting that the purpose of the new clause, which I sponsored, was to put the mess right...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
A whole string of changes affecting the recruiting group are already taking place, and I am sure ...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Lord Soames of Fletching | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
Will my hon. Friend give way?; Julian Brazier | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
I hope my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames) will understand if I take...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
I would be happy to give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames),...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
I have some sympathy with my hon. Friend’s point, but to be honest, the long-term solution is to ...; Lord Soames of Fletching | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
First of all, the country and the Territorial Army owe my hon. Friend an enormous debt for everyt...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1266 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed. I strongly agree with my right hon. and gallant Friend, and thank him for his kind words....; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1267 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way again. I cannot resist following up the intervention of our...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1267 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to make that point. Not only is it good for the veterans...; Rory Stewart | 570 c1267 (Link to this contribution)
I must challenge my hon. Friend at this point. In fact, the experience in Iraq was often that the...; Julian Brazier | 570 cc1267-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted that my hon. Friend has intervened and put me right. I was not drawing a parallel ...; Liam Fox | 570 c1268 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. I had hoped to speak in the debate, but those of ...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1268 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend for his tribute. I understand how strongly he and a nu...; John Baron | 570 c1268 (Link to this contribution)
I accept what my hon. Friend has said about the MOD’s cash envelope, but surely this comes down t...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1269 (Link to this contribution)
I will respond to my hon. Friend’s intervention, but I hope he will forgive me if I leave it for ...; John Baron | 570 cc1269-1270 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is being very generous in giving way, and I appreciate the tone in which he is set...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1270 (Link to this contribution)
I wish I could show my hon. Friend some of the e-mails and texts I received before the debate. I ...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1270 (Link to this contribution)
This Bill is the starting gun for allowing TA recruitment to move from 18,000 to 30,000. Anything...; Julian Brazier | 570 cc1270-1 (Link to this contribution)
I thoroughly agree with my hon. and gallant Friend.
I want to bring my remarks to an end as...; Dai Havard | 570 c1271 (Link to this contribution)
I am a signatory to new clause 1, and I want to make a simple statement about its power. It will ...; John Baron | 570 c1271 (Link to this contribution)
New clause 3 and consequential amendments tabled in my name and that of other hon. Members will, ...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1271 (Link to this contribution)
As the House may imagine, my hon. Friend and I have discussed these issues at some length. I thin...; John Baron | 570 c1271 (Link to this contribution)
I will very directly answer both those questions. I completely agree that the report the Governme...; Peter Bone | 570 c1272 (Link to this contribution)
I am very concerned about that point because if the Government are saying they think they have re...; John Baron | 570 c1272 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with my hon. Friend. The restructuring of other areas of government, such as the NHS, has...; Jim Cunningham | 570 c1272 (Link to this contribution)
Surely, this is a common sense approach, and to say it will cause confusion among the reserves is...; John Baron | 570 c1272 (Link to this contribution)
I very much agree. I sometimes think in this place, where there is no shortage of former serving ...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1272 (Link to this contribution)
Would my hon. Friend not accept, though, that there is no attempt to avoid scrutiny here? By indi...; Baroness Primarolo | 570 c1272 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Interventions need to be brief. The Secretary of State is an experienced Member of the Hou...; John Baron | 570 cc1272-3 (Link to this contribution)
What the Secretary of State cannot get away from, however, is that this is not that sort of repor...; Martin Horwood | 570 c1273 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman’s points about scrutiny might be well-intentioned, but new clause 3 talks abou...; John Baron | 570 c1273 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend will just have to accept that we are suggesting a brief pause. Why should Parliame...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 c1273 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making some perfectly sensible points, many of which I agree with, and I entire...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1273 (Link to this contribution)
It is too late; the redundancy notices have already gone out.; John Baron | 570 c1273 (Link to this contribution)
If I could just answer the question. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Hamps...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1274 (Link to this contribution)
I have just received another text from a Royal Air Force reservist that reads, “A pause will caus...; John Baron | 570 c1274 (Link to this contribution)
To save my hon. Friend mentioning texts and e-mails a third time, I can assure him that I have no...; Brian H Donohoe | 570 c1274 (Link to this contribution)
I am a practical individual. In my lifetime, I have lost hundreds of full-time jobs within the ar...; John Baron | 570 c1274 (Link to this contribution)
I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but I am focusing my remarks on the reservists—that is what ...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1275 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is of course right that anecdotally one can prove anything. Nevertheless, I will t...; John Baron | 570 c1275 (Link to this contribution)
I completely disagree; it is not grossly unfair at all. In fact, my hon. Friend highlights the fa...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1275 (Link to this contribution)
I have acknowledged in this House recently and shall do so again later that we have challenges in...; John Baron | 570 c1275 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is ascribing a victory to me before it has taken place. The bottom line is t...; Rory Stewart | 570 c1275 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend talks a great deal about pausing, scrutinising and thinking, but would it not be m...; John Baron | 570 cc1275-7 (Link to this contribution)
I disagree with my hon. Friend. The intention behind the new clause is very straightforward; it d...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1277 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making an interesting argument. At its core is whether those on the Front Bench...; John Baron | 570 c1277 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased that my hon. Friend has asked that question. It completely misses the point, and ill...; Jack Lopresti | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
Going back to the cost of deploying Reservists, the Government have said that they want to increa...; John Baron | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. To double the mobilisation is a big enough challenge. The...; Oliver Colvile | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
Will my hon. Friend give way?; John Baron | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
I will not, if my hon. Friend does not mind; I am responding to another intervention.
Those...; Martin Horwood | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Julian Brazier | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Baron | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
I will not give way. I have given way three times to my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury, an...; Martin Horwood | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Baron | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
No, I have already given way to my hon. Friend as well. Actually, I am doing a disservice to my h...; Oliver Colvile | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I apologise for being late; I have been upstairs in the No...; John Baron | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend missed the earlier part of the debate, and he has not heard the exchange of questi...; Martin Horwood | 570 c1278 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Baron | 570 c1279 (Link to this contribution)
I have made it clear that I shall be taking no more interventions. I think that hon. Members woul...; Bob Ainsworth | 570 cc1279-1280 (Link to this contribution)
I offer profound congratulations to the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr Brazier), not just for the...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1280 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his generous treatment of me, as leader of the...; Bob Ainsworth | 570 c1280 (Link to this contribution)
The effect can and should be that this House is enormously interested in the development of the R...; Martin Horwood | 570 c1280 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the former Minister for giving way—[Hon. Members: “Secretary of State.”] Fo...; Bob Ainsworth | 570 c1280 (Link to this contribution)
The new clause calls for a pause in certain circumstances, if the House has not been persuaded. T...; Madeleine Moon | 570 c1280 (Link to this contribution)
Let us be clear: we are not talking about any conflict or preference for Reserves or Regulars; we...; Bob Ainsworth | 570 cc1280-1 (Link to this contribution)
The growth of the Reserve element in all the services has huge potential benefits, such as a conn...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1281 (Link to this contribution)
I have a lot of respect for the right hon. Gentleman and the experience he gained as Secretary of...; Bob Ainsworth | 570 c1281 (Link to this contribution)
I totally accept that. I like to study history and I know that after conflicts, the services—gene...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 cc1281-2 (Link to this contribution)
As I have said before, my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) has made ...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1282 (Link to this contribution)
Was that before or after a decision was taken to downsize fundamentally our contribution to the i...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 c1282 (Link to this contribution)
From memory, I believe it came after that decision, but I cannot be certain. It was a good thing ...; John Baron | 570 c1282 (Link to this contribution)
My proposal does not mention the Regulars because the Bill is about the Reservists. A couple of h...; Baroness Primarolo | 570 c1282 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The hon. Gentleman has now made his point several times in one intervention, so I call Jam...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 cc1282-3 (Link to this contribution)
As I am coming on to discuss the Reserves and why I think they are so important, I should perhaps...; James Morris | 570 c1283 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is making an important point about cyber-security capability. Is not one of ...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 c1283 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right about that. The new cyber-command that has recently been brought on strea...; Oliver Colvile | 570 c1283 (Link to this contribution)
Does my right hon. Friend also agree that Reservists who come from a commercial background will b...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 cc1283-4 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed. My hon. Friend’s constituency experience is very important in this.
The money for t...; Brian Binley | 570 c1284 (Link to this contribution)
Will my right hon. Friend give way?; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 c1284 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry that my hon. Friend does not recognise a peroration when he hears it. I am just bringi...; Brian Binley | 570 c1284 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is very kind. I have heard a lot about the Army and Reservists, but little a...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 c1284 (Link to this contribution)
I must apologise to my hon. Friend for having entirely failed to cover in my few remarks about wh...; John Baron | 570 c1284 (Link to this contribution)
May I briefly suggest that we would not have to make cuts to the defence budget if the Government...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 c1284 (Link to this contribution)
I said that there were a number of things that my hon. Friend had said and would be saying with w...; Lord Coaker | 570 cc1284-5 (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to follow the peroration of the right hon. Gentleman, the Chair of the Defence Committ...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1285 (Link to this contribution)
I recognise some of the hon. Gentleman’s concerns, but does he not see that this is a long-term p...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1286 (Link to this contribution)
I do not accept that. New clause 3, which the right hon. Gentleman will have read, seeks to exami...; Angus Robertson | 570 c1286 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new role, as this is the first opportunity I have had to do s...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1286 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. The Secretary of State should have the confidence to put his ref...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1286 (Link to this contribution)
Let me clarify. The statistics that were published last week were on trained strength and on recr...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1286 (Link to this contribution)
The whole House will be pleased to hear what the Defence Secretary has said. He said in his answe...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1287 (Link to this contribution)
I think the hon. Gentleman is referring to the figure for applications, not for enlistments or tr...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1287 (Link to this contribution)
It all needs clarification, which is my point. It is interesting that when we have a debate such ...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1287 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the shadow Secretary of State for his generous words earlier, but I must pick him up on t...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1287 (Link to this contribution)
We think that the hon. Gentleman’s amendment, although it is welcome, does not go far enough. Tha...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1287 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Lord Coaker | 570 c1287 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way in a moment. We are clear that reductions to the Regular Army must take place onl...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1287 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman has half answered what I was about to ask him. Is he making a commitment to re...; Lord Coaker | 570 cc1287-8 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman is flying another kite. I am not making that commitment at all. We suppo...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1288 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, welcome the hon. Gentleman to his position. Will he place on the record his thoughts on t...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1288 (Link to this contribution)
I have said on countless occasions—[Interruption.]; Baroness Primarolo | 570 c1288 (Link to this contribution)
Order. That is enough, Mr Ellwood.; Lord Coaker | 570 c1288 (Link to this contribution)
As I have said on numerous occasions in this debate, in other debates and in the media, and as my...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1289 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way; he is generous. He talks about this uplift re...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1289 (Link to this contribution)
I have given the hon. Gentleman the answer to his question, which he asked again. If he does not ...; Anne Main | 570 c1289 (Link to this contribution)
I think the hon. Gentleman is trying to make quite a conciliatory speech. I have put my name to n...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1289 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Lady for her valuable and important point. The hon. Member for Basildon and Bill...; Dai Havard | 570 c1289 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the central question under discussion is about what the military c...; Lord Coaker | 570 c1289 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for his comment, and agree absolutely with him.; Sarah Newton | 570 c1289 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way; he is being very generous in accepting so man...; Lord Coaker | 570 cc1289-1290 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure the hon. Lady represents her constituency really well. She says that she has raised par...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1290 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with everybody who has said that reservists have performed a singularly valuable task in ...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1290 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1290 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot resist giving way to my friend.; Lord Beamish | 570 c1290 (Link to this contribution)
I remind the hon. Gentleman that when he was in the shadow defence team in opposition, he was cal...; Gerald Howarth | 570 cc1290-1 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman had better wait to hear what I have to say. What I am about to say now is what...; Julian Lewis | 570 c1291 (Link to this contribution)
In support of what my hon. Friend has just said, which is the single most important observation a...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1292 (Link to this contribution)
Naturally, I agree with my hon. Friend.; Julian Brazier | 570 c1292 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) has just made almost exactly the same po...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1292 (Link to this contribution)
I absolutely agree.; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1292 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend was absolutely right to mention my concern. I think that we have similar views on ...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1292 (Link to this contribution)
If my hon. Friend thinks that Syria is a reliable or predictable template for the future, I urge ...; Mark Pawsey | 570 c1292 (Link to this contribution)
On the basis of “we are where we are”, did my hon. Friend hear the head of the Army, General Sir ...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1292 (Link to this contribution)
I think that General Sir Peter Wall is right. I thought that my right hon. Friend the Secretary o...; 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
I give way to the former Defence Secretary.; Bob Ainsworth | 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He has obviously read new clause 3. With good will and...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think it is for me to say that. I am not advocating a pause. It is my hon. Friend the Me...; John Baron | 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
I give way to my hon. Friend, because I have made some observations about his position.; John Baron | 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Those who say that we are trying to reverse the Army Reser...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1293 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate my hon. Friend’s position, but I am afraid to say that we will just have to disagree...; John Baron | 570 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
In direct answer to that question, if the plans do not bear scrutiny in this place, that tells us...; Gerald Howarth | 570 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is a gallant and, indeed, very honourable friend, but party politics do come into ...; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth), even if I d...; James Gray | 570 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry to be a little outraged, but surely the hon. Gentleman would be the first to admit tha...; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1294 (Link to this contribution)
I have to disagree with the hon. Gentleman. Parliament must give permission for a standing Army i...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1295 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1295 (Link to this contribution)
No, I will not. We hear quite enough from the hon. Gentleman at other times.
It is not the ...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1295 (Link to this contribution)
For a moment, I thought that the hon. Gentleman was suggesting that we ought to slow the rate of ...; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1295 (Link to this contribution)
If the Secretary of State had been paying a bit more attention, he would have heard me say that i...; Bob Stewart | 570 c1295 (Link to this contribution)
In the time that it will take the Bill to travel through the other place, could we have a report ...; Thomas Docherty | 570 cc1295-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention. I hope that it would not be a career-damaging move if I call...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1296 (Link to this contribution)
indicated dissent.; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1296 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State shakes his head, but the £180 million that was allocated to the Reserves i...; Dai Havard | 570 c1296 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that a pause, rather than creating confusion or demoralising Reservists...; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1296 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with my hon. Friend, whom the House will recognise is one of the experts on the Defence C...; Julian Brazier | 570 cc1296-7 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Members for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) and for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymn...; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1297 (Link to this contribution)
I have huge respect for the hon. Gentleman, but I gently disagree with him. The Reserves already ...; Madeleine Moon | 570 c1297 (Link to this contribution)
We talk as if the members of our armed forces are delicate little flowers, whose sensitivities ar...; Lindsay Hoyle | 570 c1297 (Link to this contribution)
May I just ask that we have short interventions? Many Members still wish to speak. Let us make su...; Thomas Docherty | 570 cc1297-8 (Link to this contribution)
On new clause 6, we have all heard, in the Defence Committee and elsewhere, that the biggest disi...; Nick Harvey | 570 c1298 (Link to this contribution)
I admire the hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm for the proceedings of the Liberal Democrat conference—I...; Thomas Docherty | 570 c1298 (Link to this contribution)
I am genuinely baffled. I do not know where the hon. Gentleman was before he came into the Chambe...; Patrick Mercer | 570 c1299 (Link to this contribution)
It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty)....; Lord Beamish | 570 c1299 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman has first-hand experience of recruitment. Does he agree with the earlier comme...; Patrick Mercer | 570 cc1299-1300 (Link to this contribution)
I was deeply offended by that remark. If I may, I would gently suggest that it sounds like a comm...; Rory Stewart | 570 c1300 (Link to this contribution)
May I respectfully suggest to my hon. Friend that my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East ...; Patrick Mercer | 570 c1300 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely agree, in which case, in my 25-year experience, that is completely wrong.
Moving...; Jim Shannon | 570 c1300 (Link to this contribution)
I would like to put it on the record in Hansard that recruitment to the TA in Northern Ireland is...; Patrick Mercer | 570 c1301 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention. Recruitment in the Province was always good—despite the trou...; John Baron | 570 c1301 (Link to this contribution)
On the point of TA numbers, let me confirm that the figures released last week showed a fall in T...; Patrick Mercer | 570 c1301 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend.; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1301 (Link to this contribution)
As a supplementary to the intervention made by my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billeri...; Patrick Mercer | 570 c1301 (Link to this contribution)
There we are: we see the opposing views of the two sides. All I ask is for the Secretary of State...; James Gray | 570 c1301 (Link to this contribution)
I broadly accept what my hon. Friend has said about fitness, but does he not accept that a signif...; Patrick Mercer | 570 c1302 (Link to this contribution)
I accept that a very small number of Territorials are ready for instant deployment, but I have to...; Caroline Dinenage | 570 cc1302-3 (Link to this contribution)
It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer), and, inde...; James Gray | 570 cc1303-4 (Link to this contribution)
It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) both b...; John Baron | 570 c1304 (Link to this contribution)
I commend my hon. Friend for all his good work on behalf of the Regular armed forces in this plac...; James Gray | 570 cc1304-5 (Link to this contribution)
I always feel instinctively uneasy when anyone says, “With the greatest of respect,” because it a...; Bob Stewart | 570 c1305 (Link to this contribution)
Having talked briefly to my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr Brazier), I suggest that on...; James Gray | 570 c1306 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. There is an absolute requirement on the Government ...; Julian Lewis | 570 cc1307-8 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to be able to say that, unlike the traveller who fell among thieves, I feel like...; Martin Horwood | 570 c1308 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Having missed some of the recent debate, I am unclear as ...; Lindsay Hoyle | 570 c1308 (Link to this contribution)
Dr Julian Lewis.; Julian Lewis | 570 c1308 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman had not been absent, he would have heard the great deal of discussion that ...; James Gray | 570 c1308 (Link to this contribution)
Allow me to be the person who says that we were indeed told that. I very much regret that that ha...; Julian Lewis | 570 c1309 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, but if so, that was always going to be the case, and we should not have been sold the packag...; Rory Stewart | 570 cc1309-1310 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to speak briefly, because I am aware that many others wish to contribute, in strong defenc...; John Baron | 570 c1311 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with what my hon. Friend said about nation-building. He had his opportunity to adjudicate...; Rory Stewart | 570 c1311 (Link to this contribution)
I do not wish to quote my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire (Mr Arbuthnot), b...; Andrew Selous | 570 c1311 (Link to this contribution)
A lot of sorrow and anger has been expressed on both sides of the House this afternoon about the ...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1311 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Andrew Selous | 570 cc1311-2 (Link to this contribution)
Not at the moment.
As a former Territorial soldier, I extend that praise to the regular for...; Peter Bone | 570 c1312 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a point about scrutiny, but the only way to get a substantive vote on the is...; Andrew Selous | 570 cc1312-3 (Link to this contribution)
The point that I make to my hon. Friend is that Government Members have come to the conclusion th...; Richard Drax | 570 c1313 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to take part in the debate; I have listened very carefully to it all afternoon. ...; Andrew Selous | 570 c1313 (Link to this contribution)
Is my hon. Friend aware that the United Kingdom’s Reserve proportion would, under the proposals, ...; Richard Drax | 570 c1313 (Link to this contribution)
I hear my hon. Friend, and I respect him hugely for his opinion, but it is slightly dangerous to ...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1313 (Link to this contribution)
I am so pleased that my hon. Friend enjoyed the presentation by Dave McGinnis, one of my oldest f...; Richard Drax | 570 c1314 (Link to this contribution)
Again, I have huge respect for my hon. and gallant Friend, but it is dangerous to compare one cou...; William Cash | 570 c1314 (Link to this contribution)
I noticed the Secretary of State commenting under his breath as my hon. Friend was making that po...; Richard Drax | 570 c1314 (Link to this contribution)
I agree. I look forward to hearing whether that point is dealt with in the winding-up speeches.; Tobias Ellwood | 570 cc1314-5 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to participate in this important debate. I wish we had more such debates in the ...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1315 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1315 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that I do not have time to give way to the hon. Gentleman. Of course, Labour also cut...; John Baron | 570 c1315 (Link to this contribution)
Will my hon. Friend give way?; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1315 (Link to this contribution)
I will, but very briefly.; John Baron | 570 c1315 (Link to this contribution)
I think that my hon. Friend has inadvertently misrepresented what I said. I was commenting on the...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 cc1315-6 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the Secretary of State will respond to that point, because in an earlier intervention...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1316 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. The new commander of Sandhurst in the sand, which w...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1316 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is a long-term aspiration in helping Afghanistan.
...; Julian Lewis | 570 c1316 (Link to this contribution)
The vote on Syria was absolutely different from any other vote, because it was not just about hum...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1316 (Link to this contribution)
I totally agree with my hon. Friend, who I know has spent a lot of time looking at the issues. Th...; James Gray | 570 c1317 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend not realise that people such as me, who were very cynical before this debate ...; Tobias Ellwood | 570 c1317 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend misunderstands me. I am not saying we should have a smaller Army; I am saying we s...; Lord Garnier | 570 cc1317-8 (Link to this contribution)
I defer to the military knowledge and experience of those who have spoken before me. The House ha...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1318 (Link to this contribution)
I think this is the first time that I will have the pleasure of addressing the House while you ar...; Dai Havard | 570 c1318 (Link to this contribution)
How will that consideration be undertaken? Will there be a proper, full debate on the report in t...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1318 (Link to this contribution)
That will be for the House to determine, and the hon. Gentleman knows the mechanisms available. H...; William Cash | 570 c1318 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1319 (Link to this contribution)
I will make some progress, because I have very little time, and I want to respond to some of the ...; William Cash | 570 c1319 (Link to this contribution)
Does my right hon. Friend accept that what he says will happen in the House of Lords is way off i...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1319 (Link to this contribution)
I will not do that because this is a long programme—a five-year programme—that will need continue...; 570 c1320 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1320 (Link to this contribution)
I must make some progress, because I have very little time and I want to leave a couple of minute...; John Baron | 570 c1320 (Link to this contribution)
Will my right hon. Friend give way?; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1320 (Link to this contribution)
I will say something about new clause 3 and will then take an intervention from my hon. Friend.; John Baron | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
Using language such as “tripwires” and apportioning motives that do not exist does not do my righ...; Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
Order.; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
I have heard these arguments from my hon. Friend before. I have always been clear that we have no...; Jeffrey M Donaldson | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
Recruitment is critical to the success of this project. In Northern Ireland, almost all our Reser...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that, although we have not publicised it, we have increased t...; John Baron | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry, but I have to press on. I also want to deal with—; John Baron | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 570 c1321 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The Secretary of State is not giving way and he has very little time to finish.; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1322 (Link to this contribution)
I also want to deal with the cost of the Reserves. The ratio is 1:5—the cost of training and main...; Julian Brazier | 570 c1322 (Link to this contribution)
May I say what a pleasure it is to speak for the first time under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy...; Philip Dunne | 570 cc1328-1335 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
This is the first time I have had ...; Lord Beamish | 570 cc1333-6 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne) for the c...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1336 (Link to this contribution)
indicated dissent.; Lord Beamish | 570 c1336 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry that the Secretary of State says that, but that was not the tenor of what we heard in ...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1336 (Link to this contribution)
For the sake of the record, I have said many times before in this House and say again today that ...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1336 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to hear that, but I am also rather sceptical about what the Secretary of State says....; Philip Dunne | 570 c1336 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s final point: this clearly needs to be scrutinised properly. How...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1336 (Link to this contribution)
I accept that point, but the mood music coming out of the MOD seems to be that there is a concent...; John McDonnell | 570 c1336 (Link to this contribution)
We have been here before with such privatisations, but surely the concept of competition is stret...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1337 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. As the process goes forward, there is obviously a lot of ...; Lord Walney | 570 c1337 (Link to this contribution)
One of the key concerns was that if a new provider was created to run the GoCo it would effective...; Lord Beamish | 570 cc1337-8 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for that question and for his work in Committee. He raises an interesting ...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1338 (Link to this contribution)
Or about spending it in different ways.; Lord Beamish | 570 c1338 (Link to this contribution)
Well, we can have a debate about that; the Secretary of State still bandies around the £38 billio...; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1338 (Link to this contribution)
For the record, we have, as far as I am aware, arranged for the Opposition Front-Bench team and i...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1339 (Link to this contribution)
indicated dissent.; Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 570 c1339 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure we have. If the hon. Gentleman wants to contact me—I have said this to the shadow Secre...; Lord Beamish | 570 c1339 (Link to this contribution)
That is a very good change of heart. [Interruption.] It is a change of heart; that is not what ha...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 c1339 (Link to this contribution)
The focus of debate today has been on the reserves, but the issue of the withdrawal of one of the...; Philip Dunne | 570 c1339 (Link to this contribution)
I will happily try to clarify the position to my right hon. Friend the Chairman of the Select Com...; Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 570 cc1339-1340 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that clarification. So when will my hon. Friend receive the DE&S-plus bid? It w...; Martin Horwood | 570 c1340 (Link to this contribution)
In the time available, I would like to say that I think that the background to the Bill is both t...; Jim Shannon | 570 c1340 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In yesterday’s debate on women and the cost of living, I ...; Lindsay Hoyle | 570 c1340 (Link to this contribution)
It is not a point of order, but it is certainly a point of clarification, which the hon. Gentlema...
Subjects: Conditions of employment Defence Contracts for services Defence equipment Procurement Reserve forces
Legislation: Defence Reform Bill 2013-14
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Defence Reform Bill

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