---

Terrorism Bill

I am minded to follow that which the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, and my noble friend Lord Greaves said a moment ago. There are local historical societies all over Wales. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, has not studied Welsh history, but he may nevertheless have heard of Owain Glyndwr, described by Shakespeare as Owen Glendower. He could have been described as a terrorist; he burnt enough English castles in his day. His exploits and his governance of Wales over a period of 12 years, his setting up of the Welsh Parliament at Machynlleth are revered—one might almost say glorified—in Wales. When, some years ago, people started burning English homes in Wales, what did they call themselves? Meibion Glyndwr—the Sons of Glendower. That shows how the teaching of history may cause people to emulate what has happened in the past. I can give another example from Ireland. I was once engaged in representing a person charged with setting off a series of bomb attacks in this country, one of them in a hotel close to Buckingham Palace. To try to understand his point of view, I told him I had been reading the speeches of Daniel O’Connell—the great Irishman, as he was known in his day in the 1830s—whose street, O’Connell Street, is the main thoroughfare in Dublin. His response was, ““That traitor! Read the speech of Robert Emmett on the gallows in 1797””. Suppose that an academic talks about the Irish troubles of 1797 and Robert Emmett going to the gallows. That had an effect because what happened then fuelled the IRA. I agree with my noble friend Lord Greaves that we should not simply be talking about high flown academics; we should be developing a defence which can apply to anywhere where discussions of history or wider political happenings take place.