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Civil Aviation Bill

My Lords, I thank wholeheartedly not only my colleagues but the sponsors of the new clause from other Benches. I support all the arguments that have been deployed so far. I shall add a few brief points of my own, conscious of the fact that I was not in Grand Committee and that the House is now reaching a late hour. However, it is the job of the Minister to give a convincing response—at least intermediate, provisional and pro tem answers—to some serious questions that have been raised in this debate. What is happening in Guantanamo Bay and the extraordinary rendition scandal—that is the only word for it—are the two things that cause more unease than any other aspect; not least, the activities of the coalition forces in Iraq, the insurgency, and all that. Therefore, it is a very solemn moment at this stage of this Bill for the Government to reflect soberly about those searing and searching questions. I agree most warmly with the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, in her, as my noble friend Lady Williams said, brilliant explanation of the detail on this matter; and the disturbing aspect also alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis: the United Kingdom gives the impression of compliance and complicity in a matter that is wholly unlawful internationally and should be rejected by a country such as the United Kingdom, which prides itself on its continued adherence to the rule of law. I think that I am allowed to say without offending anyone—because there are pluses and minuses in these long histories—that there have been questionable activities by the CIA throughout the world for many decades. We think of South America; we think of Indonesia many years ago; we think of aspects of CIA behaviour elsewhere. That is why we in this House and in the other place are grateful for the vigilance of the British and international press on those matters and the demand for the Americans to change their practices. The answers given by Condoleezza Rice were not answers at all. They were evasions of a true answer. That must be addressed again at the highest levels of the US Administration. That is causing massive concern not only in the United Kingdom but in the other member states of the European Union, especially those who feel that they are being illegally used without their governments knowing anything about it. That is an extraordinary state of affairs that must be dealt with. I am glad that the ““unlawful rendition”” definition is dealt with in one subsection of the new clause, because the adjective itself allows the United Kingdom to make a first step in legal terms to cover itself from being complicit in acts of the United States that are totally illegal under international law. But that is only a first, small step, and more needs to be done. The only way that the United Kingdom can stay within both the international convention on human rights, especially on torture and the use of torture, and the European Convention on Human Rights is to excise and exorcise those practices and insist that our American allies and colleagues—so they are called; and if they are allies and colleagues in the true sense, they will respond to our overtures—outlaw those practices. Although I am not an expert observer of the construction and definition of the wording, I am especially minded to be attracted by new subsection (5), which, if the new clause were enacted, allows officers to remove items from planes suspected of unlawful or illegal activities. The noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, may be correct that perhaps separate primary legislation should be considered, and Third Reading may provide further opportunities to discuss these matters. But, in the meantime, surely it is the duty of the Minister, who is well respected in this House for his very high standard of response, to give us some preliminary reassurances that the Government take this matter very seriously, particularly in view of the United States Government’s inadequate explanation and the fact that the names of detainees have disappeared, other names have not been mentioned, and no one knows who these detainees are or where they are in the world. Are they in Guantanamo Bay or elsewhere? Are they in European countries? Have they been sent to Egypt or to other countries? There are rumours that they have been sent to Syria, which sounds extraordinary, bearing in mind the regular United States hostility towards that country. These matters must be dealt with, and I hope that the Minister will be able to give us some reassurances, at least on a holding basis, this evening.