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Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

I am grateful to the noble Lords who have spoken on this amendment. We have had some discussion about these issues on the previous amendments. There is a requirement on Natural England to consult various relevant bodies before drawing up the report, in addition to the persons already included in Section 51(4) of the 1949 Act, which include the national park authority, joint planning board, county council and county district through whose park or area the route may pass. So I would be surprised, as I think the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, perhaps partially conceded, if people were not aware of the issue of the coastal path—certainly as far as these representative organisations are concerned. I do not see how Natural England could be in any position other than being fully appraised of local considerations in those matters. We have the key local bodies listed. The problem with Amendments A337A and A338, proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, is that, rather than having to take reasonable steps to consult and notify persons with a relevant interest in affected land, Natural England would be required to consult all such persons in preparing its report. Now who are these persons? We do not have, in England, a land register, so we might be imposing on Natural England a task which is actually an impossible burden. If we say "all" in the legislation—all land interests—then the body would be open to challenge if it failed in any respect with regard to a part of the coastal path. That is not just an onerous task: it is a burden which Natural England could not accept and carry out, even in the best possible faith, because of the problem of identification. What we will do is provide regulations requiring Natural England to give those with a relevant interest an opportunity to make representations on its report once it has prepared one. That is certainly our intention. Amendments A338ZA and A340, along with Amendment A339, proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Mallalieu, the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, the noble Lord, Lord Dear, and the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, seek to insert other bodies into the list, including charities and organisations set out in Schedule 6 to the Wildlife and Countryside (Definitive Maps and Statements) Regulations 1993. Amendment A338A would remove the requirement to consult the Secretary of State on defence and national security interests. I do not think we could accept that proposition. The MoD owns quite a lot of land which is close to the coast, and surely it is right and appropriate for Natural England to consult the ministry when drawing up its report. There are significant problems with that land, as the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, identified. I am thinking of the Dorset position, for example. Those are the issues that apply with regard to restrictions. We would obviously expect the Secretary of State for Defence to be consulted about these matters. The organisations listed in Schedule 6 will have an opportunity to make representations on the report when it is completed but I do not think that we could require Natural England to consult them at the initial stage. If Natural England considers that such bodies have particular knowledge or that they can make a particular input at the initial stage, I am sure it will recognise that it is in its interests to consult them. However, that is different from making the issues mandatory in the Bill. I am not seeking to decry the significance of these organisations, nor am I saying that the likelihood is that their interests will be ignored. However, there is a difference between Natural England seeking to consult them about the report, when published, and being obliged to do so in the Bill at the initial stage. I recognise the significance of anyone with an interest in land, and I very much appreciate the argument put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Taylor. However, we cannot put an obligation on Natural England which it cannot be guaranteed to fulfil, and I do not consider that it would be able to meet the requirement suggested in the amendment. I turn to the consultation list to which the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, referred and the list that she read out. These bodies can make their issues known to Natural England during consultation, but she will recognise that that list is derived from legislation which sought to achieve other, although related, objectives. There is nothing to stop these bodies making their views known to Natural England, as they will no doubt do, and there is nothing to stop them making representations, which will be summarised by Natural England and put before the Secretary of State. However, that is a little different from translating a list of organisations from one piece of legislation where they were listed because of the nature of that legislation. Natural England has been working with Defence Estates on issues of appropriate access. In the concept of this coastal path, questions must be asked of landowners and the Ministry of Defence is significant in that respect. It is right that questions are asked about access which may, in the view of noble Lords, have been particularly restrictive in the past, although I have no doubt that my colleagues at the Ministry of Defence would emphasise the extent to which they have sought to minimise restrictions on the public. Natural England has been working with Defence Estates to clarify the question of defence land being available for the coastal path as far as possible. There may just be circumstances where it is not possible, but Natural England is already considering that matter because we recognise the strength of the noble Baroness’s case.