---

Policing and Crime Bill

I thank all noble Lords who have spoken. I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, who has been very helpful in putting down Written Questions, and I am grateful for his excellent contribution today. He made many points with which I totally agree. My noble friend Lady Harris of Richmond asked a very relevant question: what sort of beast are we dealing with? The Minister has insisted that it is a private organisation, but how can senior police officers who are paid by the public purse to serve the public—we have just been debating a clause about how accountable they should be—have an association that is entirely private and not subject to FOI? I am afraid that I am taken back to my childhood and conversations between very concerned people as to whether members of the police force belonged to, for example, the Freemasons. I do not want to draw a parallel between the Freemasons and ACPO because that may well not be appropriate. Nevertheless, an association of senior police officers needs to have a better constitutional footing and we need to be much clearer about what sort of animal we are dealing with here. As my noble friend said, it is leading and co-ordinating the direction and development of the police services and developing the ACPO brand. There should not be an ACPO brand, because being a senior police officer in this country is more about serving the public. That worries me. In his reply, the Minister told us what ACPO is and is not, but he did not address the question of whether it is appropriate. Does he think that its constitutional standing, which we have explored this afternoon, is appropriate?