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Queen’s Speech

The Office of Cyber Security—I shall try not to use acronyms—is fully manned. I would probably like to have a few more people, but it is fully manned. I hope to have a full strategy in place before Christmas, which is what I have told it to do. The noble Lord referred to another organisation, which is in Cheltenham—we talked about the CESG and the COCS—and which does the nuts and bolts and the detail. The OCS has overall authority. The people who look after the national infrastructure lie within Millbank House, but they are partly responsible to me in the Home Office. They are all co-ordinated, and we are going from a position where we were not well placed. We have done a huge amount in the past couple of years. I am very pleased with that, but we still have a long way to go. It is far from the picture that was painted by the noble Lord, Lord Patten. On the Olympic issue, we have a clear strategy. We have an Olympics CONOPS. We are doing it on a threat and security basis and I believe that that is going extremely well. The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia asked about the absence of the reform of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, and this was touched on by the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, as well. I assure noble Lords that the Government remain committed to such reform. I also assure the noble Lord that we will support the principle contained in his Bill and will study the details carefully and sympathetically. My noble friend Lord Bach has asked me to say that he looks forward to an early opportunity to debate this. I cannot say much more than that. I much enjoyed listening to my noble friend Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate. He asked specifically about the number of crimes detected because of the DNA database since 2001. More than 150,000 crimes have been detected. Between 1,300 and 2,000 were for murder, rape and manslaughter and 6,500 were for other sexual violent crimes. He is right to say that DNA retention brings justice to victims and their families. The difference between where we now stand and the Conservative position is not very great. We are dancing on a pinhead. I believe that we should keep these data. A number of people in this House have said that they would not care if they were on the database and kept there. What does anyone know about it? You are just there; no one else knows. It would never come up unless you commit a crime. We do not keep the real DNA any more; it is just the code that is kept, so it could not be used or manipulated in genome stuff or anything like that. We need to be careful about this. It is a fantastic tool in looking after our safety and security. I do not believe that it impinges on people. As I say, we are happy to have passports with a biometric photograph of ourselves, and we need to think this issue through carefully as I believe that it is important. My noble friend also talked about the use of common sense, and I could not agree more. He is absolutely right. In a sense people do need to regain the streets. It is difficult, as I know that when something happens, people are scared. If the automatic reaction of people in this country was to respond by not allowing thugs to do things, we would be in a better place, but it is a difficult issue. One has to make a judgment when it happens, but it has certainly never stopped me doing it. The noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, talked about contest, a counterterrorist strategy and who is our real threat. The biggest threat to the country is AQ and AQ-related terrorism but there are issues of Northern Ireland terrorism coming back as well as other terrorist groups. I am aware of her concerns, but I believe that we have a sensible balance in our counterterrorist strategy. The noble Lord, Lord Laird, asked a question about the proposed route from Londonderry to Tyrone. It was a very sensible question at this time of severe economic pressure and I am sure that my noble friend Lord Adonis will be examining all available options. Perhaps something will come of that. My noble friend Lord Morgan mentioned that the constitutional reform Bill lacks coherence and direction and asked what overarching principle was behind it. I do not believe that it does lack coherence and direction. I think that the principle behind the Bill is clear and significant. It aims to rebuild trust in our democratic constitutional settlement by reinforcing the principles of openness, transparency and accountability. The noble Lord, Lord Maclennan of Rogart, was realistic about the reasons why a couple of things have been withdrawn from that Bill—as was the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, when he spoke on that specific subject as well. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy—who is looking a little like a bird of paradise behind me—talked about bribery and the Bribery Bill, which she supports. She also went through a number of issues that felt rather like a rapier thrust through the heart. The only one of those issues that I shall refer to is Parliament Square. It is absolutely right that we are removing that legislation and allowing people to demonstrate around Parliament Square. Just to show the difficulty, however, I should point out that there are an awful lot of people in the other place who want to be more draconian about it. One always has terrible difficulties in balancing these things out. But I am glad that we are moving down that route and trying to do that. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, raised a couple of concerns about the Bribery Bill, one of which was that he felt that the Attorney-General should show more personal interest in it. I will talk to the Attorney-General about that and say exactly that. I know that the noble and learned Lord feels that the definition is far too complex. I had a response from the Box saying that it is not, but I do not think that the statement saying so was quite clear enough. So I shall talk to the Attorney-General about it and we will see what we can do about that, if it is something that can be done easily. However, I do not make any promises. Clearly it needs some debate. As for the level playing field, that is a very good point. I have a long and complex answer on it; I do not really have time to go into it now, but we do have an answer. It is an absolutely valid point. From my time spent going round the world as a military officer and sometimes seeing some of the countries that are meant to be above and beyond bribery, I can say that it would make you laugh to see the pots of money that they were stuffing into people’s pockets. So I do think that we need to have a level playing field on some of these issues. I am taking overlong in replying and I will be told off about it in a minute—I can see that. The noble Lord, Lord Williamson, was very positive, as were a number of other speakers, about the recognition of the Civil Service and putting it on a statutory footing. I thank noble Lords for that. It is remarkable that this should take more than 155 years. I also thank noble Lords for their support on the ratification of treaties. On the aspect of the declaration of war, that will be kept under constant review. A noble Lord asked whether that will be done. It will absolutely be done. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts, talked about electoral reform, as did a number of other speakers. It seemed to me that he was saying that it is a means of giving the Conservatives seats in large tracts of our country. I must have missed the point of what he was saying. But, joking aside, the Prime Minister has said that in Labour's next manifesto there will be a commitment for a referendum to be held early in the next Parliament for people to decide whether they want to move to the alternative vote. I have already touched on the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Manningham-Buller. As for the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, I think that I have, as I said, touched on the issue of being stopped and searched. I think that there was a feeling that some of the financial aspects and some of the rules for this House, and perhaps for the other place, are the responsibility of the Prime Minister. I do not think that that is really fair. That is not his responsibility. It is a corporate responsibility and the other place needs to sort its act out. We have people such as the SSRB and others helping them with it. But I do not think that it can really be put at the Prime Minister's door. On immigration, I think that I have always said how valuable it has been for our country. As for the issue of civil liberties and DNA, I honestly believe that all of us in this House believe in civil liberties. We might have different views about how we do it, but everyone in this House believes in civil liberties. We all think that they are important. The way in which this House behaves often shows that that is the case. The noble Lord, Lord Henley, referred to the number of Bills. I am afraid that I do not have the precise number. I asked my noble friend Lord Bach for advice. He said, "It’s less than the Tories did during their time in government", but that does not help very much, so I shall come back when I have a proper list. On our priorities, all I can say at this Dispatch Box is that my priorities are the Bills that I am speaking to tonight. They are not a torrent. They are quite sensible. By the way in which the debate has gone, they have been shown to be quite sensible. The time taken up by the home, legal and constitutional affairs Bills will be small because in tonight’s debate we have seen that people have not gone to town on any of them. On the Civil Service issue, it was said 155 years ago that this would be done. For the vast majority of that time, the Tories were in power, so I do not think that we have been too slow at getting this done. However, people are always willing to grab, accept what is given and then go for the next thing. I had an answer on the Kelly proposals, but I do not have it at my fingertips. I shall get back in writing on them. The Bill will address some of the public’s key concerns about crime. It will introduce measures to prevent a range of threats, anti-social behaviour, youth gang violence and financial exploitation. We are taking action to prevent crimes against the most vulnerable members of our society. We are shutting down opportunities for criminals during this economic downturn by things such as stopping wheel-clamping businesses doing exorbitant things. These are good measures, which will be widely well received. The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, finally agreed that we have not wasted our years here in relation to constitutional reform. Since 1997, we have introduced devolution to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and made it a practical reality and we have taken forward reforms in the Human Rights Act and on freedom of information. I think that we have done jolly well; a lot has been done. The noble Lord, Lord Williamson, nodded to that and to the fact that we have a continuing commitment in this area. I think that I have spoken for far too long. I thank noble Lords again for their valuable contributions. This was a valuable, wide-ranging debate. I believe that the reforms that we are introducing in this short fifth Session will build on our successes over the past 12 years and enhance our democracy. I commend the programme to your Lordships.