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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 20 December 2005, in the House of Lords.

Compensation Bill [HL]

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
676 c245-304GC 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department for Constitutional Affairs
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Viscount Eccles | 676 c277GC (Link to this contribution) I add to what the Minister has said. I absolutely agree that sometimes the easy thing—I think that w...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c285-6GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that Hansard makes something of these exchanges. I am happy to pass the Minister a copy of th...
Show all contributions (125)
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c285GC (Link to this contribution) I think the noble Lord, Lord Greenway, has had a very clear indication that an invitation to sail is...
Lord Lucas | 676 c285GC (Link to this contribution) If you rephrased it, and said that, ““words of apology shall not of themselves amount to an admissio...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c284-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thought I had responded to the amendment. I was saying to the noble Earl—perhaps I should have bee...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c279-80GC (Link to this contribution) What I think that the Minister is saying is that if she were persuaded that it would be possible, sh...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c265GC (Link to this contribution) I did not think that I would find a pattern—but, unfortunately, I was not given the briefing that th...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c255GC (Link to this contribution) But coming from the noble Lord, it has completely different connotations.
Lord Goodhart | 676 c261GC (Link to this contribution) Causation is of course a different matter. If someone was driving or doing something negligently, bu...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c252-3GC (Link to this contribution) To summarise, simple guidelines may not be issued, therefore we have moved on. I understand that the...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c300-1GC (Link to this contribution) I would be very happy to write to the noble Lord with as much information as I can. I think it is no...
Viscount Eccles | 676 c300GC (Link to this contribution) Could the Office of Fair Trading and the Competition Commission come into this as bodies that could ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c304GC (Link to this contribution) It is a long time since I did O-level Latin.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c299-300GC (Link to this contribution) The difficulty with legislation in the Bill, as the noble Lord knows better than I, is whether it ru...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c300GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for what she said about lists. Thank goodness she is not in charge of the Chari...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c300GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot give the noble Lord that commitment. I am sure that the noble Lord is not surprised by that...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c298GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. She referred to the independent expert and the fact that she anticipa...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c296-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, for setting out so well the issues that concern not...
Lord Greenway | 676 c288-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 25:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““IMPACT OF NEGLIGENCE O...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c287-8GC (Link to this contribution) There certainly is. I shall keep quiet while the Leader of the House distributes some festive cheer ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c278-9GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot give the noble Lord the level of detail that I would like because my colleagues and I have ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c275-7GC (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that it is really important for us to ensure ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c277-8GC (Link to this contribution) I completely understand what the noble Lord says—I completely accept that such decisions are made. I...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c273-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 19:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““PUBLIC AUTHORITIES (1)...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c272GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, but it has just occurred to me that one of the issues for th...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c286-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 21:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““APPLICATION OF SECTION...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c283GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Lucas has hit the proverbial on the head about the problem that the new clause ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c263GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble friend. I think that they got shot of him quickly and put him down a ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c263-4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is getting impatient. Meanwhile, back to the Bill, she must in future amend her a...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c264-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am always grateful for the interventions of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury. I understand...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c263GC (Link to this contribution) It would help if I said that running to the House of Lords is an expensive and rare business and tha...
Lord Lucas | 676 c269GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend puts everything better than I can, so I shall not repeat what he said. However, can ...
Lord Greenway | 676 c269-70GC (Link to this contribution) My name, as well as that of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, is attached to Amendment No. 24. First, I ap...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c267-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 18:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““PRESUMPTION OF CONTRIB...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c266GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has to understand that my premise is that it is not necessary because the courts have...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c255GC (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister aware that the word ““desirable”” appears in the judgment of the Appellate Committee...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c256-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 16:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““BURDEN OF PROOF (1)   ...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c260-1GC (Link to this contribution) I will break briefly my vow of silence to say that I am afraid that 100 per cent contributory neglig...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c250-1GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, talked about the road to Hell and pleasant pastures. My ambition is to ge...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c252GC (Link to this contribution) I appreciate what the noble Lord seeks to do. What I am trying to explain to the noble Lord, as the ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c245-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 15:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““INTERPRETATION OF CLAI...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c304GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn sine die.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, that I intend to bring amendments forward on Report to deal ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart. The amendment would omit the concept of authorisation be...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c301-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 27:"Page 1, line 18, leave out paragraph (c)." The noble Lord said: I have been...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c298-9GC (Link to this contribution) I did, indeed, stop short as I am not suggesting that is precisely what I am going to do. The report...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c299GC (Link to this contribution) It may be for the assistance of the Committee also if the Minister were to give a little further det...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c299GC (Link to this contribution) I would not even have mentioned the report if I was not going to make as much of it available as pos...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c291-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26:"Page 1, line 15, leave out ““regulated””" The noble Lord said: We now move ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c291GC (Link to this contribution) One thing that we have been doing with our colleagues in education is checking on that issue. There ...
Lord Greenway | 676 c291GC (Link to this contribution) I accept that from the Minister, and thank her for it. I do not want to press this. I was guilty of ...
Lord Lucas | 676 c289GC (Link to this contribution) I would just like to come back to the general question of how we enable people to make it clear that...
Baroness Amos | 676 c287GC (Link to this contribution) I was worried that there was no Christmas spirit in the Grand Committee.
Earl of Erroll | 676 c278GC (Link to this contribution) There has been a lot of discussion about fighting things, but the new clause is about the courts bei...
Viscount Eccles | 676 c278GC (Link to this contribution) I offer the Minister one more example. In a foundry in the west midlands the annual wage increase wa...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c278GC (Link to this contribution) I shall press the Minister a little further because this is an important debate. The Prime Minister,...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c278GC (Link to this contribution) Indeed, the courts can do that. One concern that I would have with the amendment, although I entirel...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c275GC (Link to this contribution) I am not in favour of singling out public authorities for special treatment. This would also apply t...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c274-5GC (Link to this contribution) There is no provision in the Bill which addresses that point. Ministers are rightly encouraging publ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c272GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my noble friend for that example. We are trying to make it easier and simpler ...
Lord Lucas | 676 c271-2GC (Link to this contribution) Going back to an earlier amendment, what the Minister said reminds me of a real example. A farmer’s ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c270-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the noble Lord’s suggestion, but I have several things to do over Christmas concer...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c285GC (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, I do not believe that that is a novel concept. However, I believe that because o...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c285GC (Link to this contribution) Unsurprisingly, I shall not be able to answer that immediately. Of course, there could be other word...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c284GC (Link to this contribution) I can understand what the noble Earl wants the amendment to do, but I must tell him what it will act...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c280-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 20:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““APOLOGIES, OFFERS OF T...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c263GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may interject one comment to clear the air a little. The noble Earl, Lord Erroll, continue...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c263GC (Link to this contribution) On that note, because the courts’ judgments were drifting in a direction which the Tomlinson decisio...
Lord Lucas | 676 c266-7GC (Link to this contribution) The fact that this has not been settled by the courts shows merely the deficiencies in our education...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c266GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the noble Lord has the brightest and best legal minds behind him, though I belie...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c266GC (Link to this contribution) That is why I need to counter the argument that Jayes is valid law. I believe that I have introduced...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c255GC (Link to this contribution) I am aware that the word desirable has appeared before but, as the noble Lord knows, not being a law...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c255GC (Link to this contribution) I think that we have all loved Girl Guides in our own way over the years—I am only quoting the noble...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c255-6GC (Link to this contribution) No, no, I always follow the noble Baroness. We seek clarification; that is what the debate on the am...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c253-4GC (Link to this contribution) The point is none the less valid. When one looks at how organisations or parts of government deal wi...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c254-5GC (Link to this contribution) I wish that the noble Lord had been present on our previous day in Committee because we spent a huge...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c261-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the helpful way in which we have been able to debate this important issue. I am aw...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c261GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, for whom I have enormous respect, is sadly on this occasion, with the...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c257-8GC (Link to this contribution) The basis on which the noble Lord has so helpfully set out the purpose of his amendment is essential...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I can see this may have some value and it may be worth talking about. For instance, a typical exampl...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c252GC (Link to this contribution) I said ““any or none””. I made the point in describing what the ministerial group may do in guidelin...
Lord Lucas | 676 c249GC (Link to this contribution) I am very much hoping that the Minister does not accept the amendment. It is important that doctors ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c252GC (Link to this contribution) That is all very helpful. There was no repeat of the word ““simple””, but now we are to have a proli...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c248GC (Link to this contribution) I think I can be brief. As I made clear on the first day of the Grand Committee, my view is that sin...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c302-3GC (Link to this contribution) Whether the Minister reads the report backwards or forwards, she will come to the conclusion that th...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c304GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for what she said about the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Com...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c303-4GC (Link to this contribution) Of course. The noble Lord will know from his colleagues who have worked with me that that is precise...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c301GC (Link to this contribution) There is so much to ponder and consider. This has been a very helpful debate in raising some of the ...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c304GC (Link to this contribution) That usually means forever, does it not, in practice? I hope that is not going to be the case.
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c299GC (Link to this contribution) I, of course, recognise that commercially confidential information could not possibly be disclosed. ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c289-90GC (Link to this contribution) The courts are quite good at sorting out many of these issues. It is always very difficult for me to...
Lord Greenway | 676 c290-1GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened with interest to what the Minister said, and will read it again—but there is no doub...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c288GC (Link to this contribution) I am overcome with largesse. First, I am very grateful to the Leader for bringing me and other membe...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c287GC (Link to this contribution) I shall not speak to the two pieces of legislation referred to by the noble Lord because I hope to m...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c279GC (Link to this contribution) In the next few months? That is very good news. I hope that if that the Minister and her colleagues ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c279GC (Link to this contribution) I always have an open mind on these issues. In discussions with other bodies, I have seen nothing th...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c272-3GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course, and I shall suggest to Nick Way, Director General of the Historic Houses Association...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c286GC (Link to this contribution) The Prime Minister said:"““The big lesson from public consultations is that what the public frequent...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c285GC (Link to this contribution) It is also important in the context of the report—or it is, at least, interesting—that the report fo...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c285GC (Link to this contribution) Maybe we should transcribe the words from the NHS Redress Bill into this one, for the general public...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c283GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment does not say that an admission of guilt after saying sorry will be ignored. The exampl...
Lord Lucas | 676 c282-3GC (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the spirit of the amendment. Indeed, I record my thanks to the staff at Clapha...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c284GC (Link to this contribution) What is the response of the noble Baroness to the amendment? I heard her response to my noble friend...
Lord Greenway | 676 c281-2GC (Link to this contribution) My name is attached to the amendment, but I come to it from a slightly different tack than my noble ...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c282GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment; it is extremely sensible. There is certainly a public perception that you s...
Lord Lucas | 676 c265GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister help me with the evidence that underlies the contention that we need to give guidan...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c263GC (Link to this contribution) I must correct my noble friend. Lord Denning did get to the House of Lords and he then went down a s...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c265-6GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a very helpful debate, but I must rise to the defence of the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c270GC (Link to this contribution) It is a delight to see the noble Lord, Lord Greenway, joining us. The noble Earl moved his amendment...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c267GC (Link to this contribution) But where they have not caught up it is our duty to put the situation right. The Minister has more o...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 676 c253GC (Link to this contribution) I am not making myself as clear as I would like. In being concerned about the compensation culture, ...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c253GC (Link to this contribution) We are doing a risk assessment for the farm estate, which is running to 108 pages. To be honest, tha...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c254GC (Link to this contribution) I want to take the Minister up on a number of points she made. She emphasised many times that Clause...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c257GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether this is sensible; it is for the lawyers to decide. Subsection (2) of this prop...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c258GC (Link to this contribution) We are of one mind in that no side of the Committee wishes to create additional hurdles which may pr...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c258-60GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17:"After Clause 1, insert the following new clause—" ““CONTRIBUTORY NEGLIGENC...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c249GC (Link to this contribution) As I explained at the outset, the amendment is an attempt to clarify the extent to which Clause 1 is...
Earl of Erroll | 676 c249-50GC (Link to this contribution) Much of this matter was debated on earlier amendments, particularly Amendment No. 3. We discussed th...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 676 c251-2GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has just made a very important statement—that we have moved on from what the Prim...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 676 c248-9GC (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene, not having intervened thus far, but one of the problems with this place is ...
Subjects
Complaints Compensation Abuse Courts Damages Advertising Evidence Drugs Drunkenness NHS Personal injury Local government finance Public bodies Marketing Negligence Schools Regulation Voluntary work Risk assessment Claims management services
Legislation
Compensation Bill (HL) 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk