Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 2 May 2006, in the House of Commons.

Finance (No. 2) Bill 2005-06

Finance (No 2) Bill. Committee stage first day, to consider Clauses Nos. 13 to 15, 26, 61, 91 and 106, Schedule 14, and new Clauses relating to the effect of provisions of the Bill on section 18 of the Inheritance Tax Act 1984). New Clause 1, discussed with New Clauses 2 and 3, debated and negatived on division (193 to 285). Clause 61 debated and agreed to on division (281 to 158). Clause 26 debated and agreed to on division (304 to 137).

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 445 c836-940
Session: 2005-06
Department: Treasury
Legislative stage: Committee stage
Procedure: New clauses
Chamber / Committee: House of Commons chamber
Related items: Finance (No 2) Bill. In two volumes. Explanatory notes Bill 161-EN also published, in three volumes.
Tuesday, 28 March 2006
Bills
House of Commons; Finance (No 2) Bill
Tuesday, 2 May 2006
Formal proceedings
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions: John Healey | 445 c936 (Link to this contribution) The unfairness at the heart of the system and the challenge that we face is that many companies are ...; John Healey | 445 c935 (Link to this contribution) I will gladly give way when I have finished making this point. We said in the pre-Budget report:"““A...; Brooks Newmark | 445 c935-6 (Link to this contribution) In addressing the important issue of fairness, I would like the Financial Secretary to deal with the...; Brooks Newmark | 445 c935 (Link to this contribution) Will the Financial Secretary give way?; John Healey | 445 c936-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that question, but a range of factors make up the business and economic environmen...; Helen Goodman | 445 c936 (Link to this contribution) : It may help the Committee if my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary were to put this matter in a w...; John Healey | 445 c936 (Link to this contribution) As I have tried to explain, the purpose of clause 26 is to refocus the support that we give to small...; Lord Beamish | 445 c908-9 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. Unfortunately, however, I, unlike the hon. Member for Falmouth an...; Brooks Newmark | 445 c909-11 (Link to this contribution) This year, the Chancellor presented a Budget for Britain’s future, a Budget which will supposedly eq...; David Gauke | 445 c911-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to make four brief points about the proposal to abolish the HCI, which is perhaps symptomatic...; Rob Marris | 445 c912 (Link to this contribution) Surely it is up to a business to decide whether such use is significant. If it is, class 1 national ...; Lord Wills | 445 c904 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify the point raised by the hon. Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) abou...; Peter Luff | 445 c904-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to speculate on the tax policies drawn up by my Front-Bench colleagues. I do not have...; Lord Beamish | 445 c907-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the aspiration of the hon. Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) for wide use of computers...; Peter Luff | 445 c908 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making an important point—of course we want lower-paid people to get access to...; Mark Francois | 445 c904 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an extremely important point. When companies, especially large multinationa...; Peter Luff | 445 c904 (Link to this contribution) I have talked to many representatives of the Home Computing Initiative Alliance, and they have all...; Peter Luff | 445 c903-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. I thought that the right hon. Lady was reading something. I am genuinely grateful to th...; Peter Luff | 445 c902-3 (Link to this contribution) No, not at all. The hon. Gentleman does not understand how much money the industry has had to invest...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c903 (Link to this contribution) I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I was not speaking when he accused me of doing so. I am listeni...; Peter Luff | 445 c902 (Link to this contribution) That is a helpful intervention, which speaks for itself. The scheme was universally approved by the...; Stephen Hesford | 445 c902 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the hon. Gentleman’s argument that an HCI industry exists. Is he arguing for a st...; Peter Luff | 445 c901-2 (Link to this contribution) Although you rightly rebuked us, Mrs. Heal, for getting a little excitable earlier in the debate, I ...; Stewart Hosie | 445 c902 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made that point a few times during the debate. On 24 April, the Paymaster Gen...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c901 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The scheme was an initiative to bring computers into the home...; Lord Wills | 445 c901 (Link to this contribution) : I welcome today’s announcement by the Government of the digital inclusion team. It is welcome not ...; Peter Luff | 445 c900-1 (Link to this contribution) For the second time in the debate, the Paymaster General indicates that she does not understand the ...; Rob Marris | 445 c915 (Link to this contribution) At the risk of detaining the House, will the hon. Gentleman say more about his statistics? Labour Me...; Philip Dunne | 445 c915 (Link to this contribution) I shall give the House a specific example of the sort of effective and high-tech home working that g...; Peter Luff | 445 c916 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is exactly the same as my hon. Friend’s. I left the Chamber to check what was happe...; Mark Francois | 445 c916-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, the Chairman of the Trade and Industry Committee. We have used Sweden a...; Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c917 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Chairman puts motions at the appropriate time.; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c915 (Link to this contribution) What is the relevance of those figures?; Philip Dunne | 445 c915 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is questioning the relevance of those figures—; Ivan Lewis | 445 c915 (Link to this contribution) What is the relevance of the whole speech?; Philip Dunne | 445 c914 (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier, I am supporting my Front-Bench colleagues’ amendment to clause 61, which we are d...; Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c914 (Link to this contribution) Order. I must rule from the Chair that the Paymaster General is correct: amendment No. 2 has not bee...; Philip Dunne | 445 c913-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Mr. O’Hara, for allowing me to contribute to this debate. This is a novel expe...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c914 (Link to this contribution) People working from home are not affected by this measure. The hon. Gentleman is speaking to an amen...; Philip Dunne | 445 c914 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful again, Mr. O’Hara, for making that clear. I shall therefore explain very briefly why t...; Philip Dunne | 445 c914 (Link to this contribution) I stand corrected, Mr. O’Hara, and I am grateful for that clarification. On the general subject of ...; Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c914 (Link to this contribution) Order. According to my information, no amendments to clause 61 have been selected.; David Gauke | 445 c913 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that that scheme is in place. Indeed, we heard earlier that the Danish scheme wa...; David Gauke | 445 c912-3 (Link to this contribution) The employer, when providing such a facility to their employees, will be expected to provide some ad...; John Healey | 445 c924-5 (Link to this contribution) This has been a useful, well-targeted and focused debate. The amendment is drafted rather widely, bu...; Mark Hoban | 445 c924 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, and I should like to match the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Julia...; John Healey | 445 c925-7 (Link to this contribution) Clause 26 essentially introduces schedule 14. Together, the effect is to replace the starting rate o...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c925 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly reassured by the Minister’s remarks. It would be preferable for HMRC to deal with the ...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c923 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 27, in page 26, line 19 [Vol I], at end insert—; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c920 (Link to this contribution) Not at the moment, because the hon. Gentleman asked me for the evidence and then ridiculed me when I...; Colin Breed | 445 c931 (Link to this contribution) I agree with most of what the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) said. We all agree that small busi...; Mark Hoban | 445 c927-31 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to debate clause 26. The Financial Secretary briefly discussed the...; Colin Breed | 445 c931-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. I was engaged in banking at that time, and it was one of t...; Ed Balls | 445 c931 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about the importance of stability supporting the growth of sma...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c919 (Link to this contribution) No, it has been a very long debate.; Peter Luff | 445 c919 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c918-9 (Link to this contribution) I am putting the evidence to the Committee. In the Netherlands and in Sweden, whatever the Finance ...; Mark Francois | 445 c918 (Link to this contribution) Where is the evidence?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c917-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) made a nice try, Mr. O’Hara, but he was not fast enough....; Peter Luff | 445 c920 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c919-20 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not wish to give way. It has now been suggested—I can only suggest that it is wilful misin...; Peter Luff | 445 c919 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c919 (Link to this contribution) No, I should like to complete—; Peter Luff | 445 c919 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?; Ed Balls | 445 c933 (Link to this contribution) If we took the hon. Gentleman’s advice and did not make the Government’s proposed change, and instea...; Brooks Newmark | 445 c932-3 (Link to this contribution) Saying that the Chancellor has executed a U-turn on the nil rate band of corporation tax is not enti...; Stewart Hosie | 445 c932 (Link to this contribution) : I considered this matter at the time of the Bill’s Second Reading, and spoke to representatives of...; Brooks Newmark | 445 c933-4 (Link to this contribution) You are absolutely correct, Sir Alan. It is the hon. Member for Normanton (Ed Balls) who has an idio...; Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c933 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am proposing nothing.; Brooks Newmark | 445 c933 (Link to this contribution) It says nothing here, actually. [Laughter.] What individual businesses, particularly small businesse...; Ivan Lewis | 445 c933 (Link to this contribution) What does it say there?; John Healey | 445 c935 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend cuts to the very heart of the policy challenges that any Government face, and which w...; Ed Balls | 445 c935 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that in making tax policy, one is always balancing tackling avoidance with...; John Healey | 445 c934-5 (Link to this contribution) We introduced the starting rate of corporation tax at 10 per cent. in 2000 to provide the means for ...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c900 (Link to this contribution) I can give the hon. Gentleman a precise example of someone to whom I spoke this morning and who is u...; Lord Beamish | 445 c900 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening carefully to the hon. Lady. How will low paid workers, the unemployed or the e...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c899 (Link to this contribution) I can help the hon. Lady on this point. It may be confused in her mind, but it is not confused in em...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c899-900 (Link to this contribution) I hope that employees feel the same way as employers. Another major problem is the way in which the...; Stewart Hosie | 445 c899 (Link to this contribution) How does the hon. Lady understand the following example? If an employee has a computer for business ...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c899 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman could have an interesting discussion about that with the taxman.; Rob Marris | 445 c897-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Paymaster General will address that issue later, if she catches your eye, Mrs. He...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c898-9 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the announcement of a dedicated digital inclusion team and hope that it will really tackle...; Rob Marris | 445 c896-7 (Link to this contribution) I did not know that, although it does not surprise me. Although the HCI had some success, times chan...; Peter Luff | 445 c897 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is a colleague on the Trade and Industry Committee. On the ...; Mark Francois | 445 c894-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for conceding that we have tried to be constructive about the matter. I w...; Lord Beamish | 445 c896 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree with the Low Pay Commission, which has pointed out that many part-time wom...; Mark Francois | 445 c892-3 (Link to this contribution) In a minute. The Government cannot hide behind excuses, such as the difficulty of defining qualifyi...; Mark Francois | 445 c893 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. I come to an important point—the definition of ““not significant””, which the Paymaste...; Lord Wills | 445 c894 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for finally giving way. He has moved on from the point...; Lord Wills | 445 c892 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Mark Francois | 445 c892 (Link to this contribution) In a minute. Throughout the Bill, we will debate ad nauseam all sorts of anti-avoidance proposals t...; Lord Wills | 445 c892 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Mark Francois | 445 c892 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. In any event, it would not be difficult to tighten up the rules by producing guideline...; Mark Francois | 445 c891-2 (Link to this contribution) Those who know the Paymaster General well can judge for themselves. On the options to save the sche...; Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c891 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is not a point of order for the Chair. May I ask all those participating in the debate t...; Mark Francois | 445 c890-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Many people entered into the arrangement in good faith, having been encoura...; Peter Luff | 445 c891 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?; Mark Francois | 445 c891 (Link to this contribution) In my experience, the Paymaster General mutters a lot from a sedentary position. [Interruption.] I r...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c891 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mrs. Heal. I have not said a dicky bird. I have been sitting in my place listen...; Mark Francois | 445 c891 (Link to this contribution) I will briefly, but then I want to outline the alternative.; Peter Luff | 445 c891 (Link to this contribution) The Paymaster General is muttering from a sedentary position something about it being for work. My h...; Stephen Hesford | 445 c889 (Link to this contribution) I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman, who has moved on to the point that I wanted to raise. The proble...; Mark Francois | 445 c888 (Link to this contribution) We have already established—and everyone accepts— that 75 per cent. of people who benefited from the...; Mark Francois | 445 c888-9 (Link to this contribution) I have given way several times to the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr. Jones) and I want to make so...; Adam Afriyie | 445 c890 (Link to this contribution) Just before my hon. Friend moves on to establishing his case for a revised scheme, does he agree tha...; Mark Francois | 445 c889-90 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way before I was tempted to intervene on him. He is trying to ...; Mark Francois | 445 c885 (Link to this contribution) As a courtesy to the Paymaster General, I shall do so.; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c885 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, because I do not want the hon. Gentleman to dig himself into a hole. He said that the...; Mark Francois | 445 c885 (Link to this contribution) I have already explained to the Paymaster General that the scheme was on the brink of taking off. Sw...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c885 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Mark Francois | 445 c884 (Link to this contribution) I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the trade union movement, from the general secretary of the TUC d...; Mark Francois | 445 c884-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution. The Paymaster General’s case can best be described as ...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c885 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has listed all those fantastically important schemes, but can he explain why the ...; Mark Francois | 445 c884 (Link to this contribution) On that basis, I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie).; Adam Afriyie | 445 c884 (Link to this contribution) : I thank my hon. Friend for giving way after being so generous in giving way earlier, unlike the Pa...; Mark Francois | 445 c887 (Link to this contribution) I agree. The Chancellor said little about the initiative in his Budget speech but, equally, he said ...; Lord Beamish | 445 c887-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has concentrated on the low-paid gaining access to computers, but is it not the c...; Mark Francois | 445 c885 (Link to this contribution) If the Paymaster General had done me the courtesy of listening, she would know that I explained that...; Peter Luff | 445 c886 (Link to this contribution) What I have heard from the Paymaster General confirms my worst suspicions. She does not have the sli...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c886 (Link to this contribution) Four per cent.; Peter Luff | 445 c886 (Link to this contribution) It is no good the hon. Lady saying that, as the scheme was on the verge of success at the precise mo...; Mark Francois | 445 c886 (Link to this contribution) As I shall argue, the ultimate reason for the scrapping of the scheme by the Government is its cost....; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c886 (Link to this contribution) I said that there was misuse.; Mark Francois | 445 c886-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall come on to that, and I shall prove that it is not taking place on a scale that would justify...; Mark Francois | 445 c878 (Link to this contribution) The evidence of one or two websites is not enough to damn a whole scheme. If the Government have suc...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c878-9 (Link to this contribution) The Opposition change their argument as they lose each point. The issue with regard to abuse of the ...; Peter Luff | 445 c878 (Link to this contribution) This is a debate in which it would be good to have answers to questions. I asked the right hon. Lady...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c878 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to produce that evidence. Indeed, I am happy to produce it to the hon. Gentleman for the ...; Peter Luff | 445 c878 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c878 (Link to this contribution) I will, but this is the last time that I will give way to the hon. Gentleman. I will then try to mak...; Peter Luff | 445 c877 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c877-8 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman will let me make some progress. I, too, have read the brief from...; Peter Luff | 445 c877 (Link to this contribution) What the Paymaster General is saying is news to the industry, which was not consulted about the prob...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c877 (Link to this contribution) The information comes from the industry. The hon. Gentleman interrupted me rather early on in my rem...; Lord Beamish | 445 c883 (Link to this contribution) I get confused these days about what the Conservative party is. Is the hon. Gentleman really saying ...; Peter Luff | 445 c882 (Link to this contribution) : Does my hon. Friend agree that there are two separate points, the first of which is how best to ac...; Mark Francois | 445 c882 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. We are looking to the Government this evening for some indication, when...; David Leslie Taylor | 445 c882-3 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the spreading of IT skills of the type that he is describing in ...; Mark Francois | 445 c883 (Link to this contribution) I accept, with the hon. Gentleman’s background in accounting, that some other measures have helped i...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c879-80 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman. Perhaps he will let me make some progress. Furthermo...; Mark Francois | 445 c880-1 (Link to this contribution) I want clause 61 to be deleted from the Bill for the chief purpose of saving the popular home comput...; Lord Wills | 445 c881 (Link to this contribution) As far as I understand the case that the hon. Gentleman makes, he seems to agree with the objectives...; Mark Francois | 445 c881-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall outline how we believe the scheme can be revised so that it should survive. I am not saying ...; Adam Afriyie | 445 c879 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c868;445 (not in bound volume) (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, as I said that I would.; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c869 (Link to this contribution) I will, but it will be the last time.; Rob Marris | 445 c869 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c868-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I have known each other for quite a long time. He knows very well that I have...; John Bercow | 445 c868 (Link to this contribution) I am a bit suspicious. I have a high regard for the Paymaster General, but she treated a serious and...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c869-70 (Link to this contribution) If I can explain what the provision does, it might help in dealing with the misunderstandings. In re...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c869 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c869 (Link to this contribution) People have two years in which to ensure that there is a proper end to a trust. In that sense, such ...; Rob Marris | 445 c869 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Paymaster General for her generosity. I am becoming a little confused by some ...; David Gauke | 445 c870 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way?; David Gauke | 445 c870 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way on that point?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c870 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will allow me to make at least some headway on the reasons why the new cl...; David Gauke | 445 c871 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way on that point?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c870-1 (Link to this contribution) No; please let me make some progress on these points. Transferring assets into trusts is very diffe...; David Gauke | 445 c871 (Link to this contribution) I have two questions. First, will not the possibility of variation allow people to get around the ta...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c871 (Link to this contribution) I want to make three points. Opposition Members continually claim that various eventualities will no...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c872-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall review briefly some of the comments that have been made. We began with the hon. Member for R...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c871-2 (Link to this contribution) I accept that people who transfer assets under the spouse exemption provisions do not need a trust t...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c865 (Link to this contribution) I would be interested to know what evidence the Treasury had gathered of inheritance tax avoidance t...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c865 (Link to this contribution) I find it best to answer one question at a time, and I shall come to those organisations and the hon...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c865 (Link to this contribution) Does the Paymaster General prefer the view of the Daily Mail or that of the Law Society, the Charter...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c864-5 (Link to this contribution) That is probably as close as I shall get to receiving an apology but, when the hon. Gentleman reads ...; Philip Dunne | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to clarify my remarks to the Paymaster General. I intended not to suggest that she ha...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) I beg your pardon, Sir Michael, and thank the hon. Gentleman very much. Would he like to come and si...; John Bercow | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) Sir Michael.; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c866 (Link to this contribution) I shall just make this point, then I will give way. The hon. Member for Chipping Barnet said earlie...; Lord Davies of Stamford | 445 c866 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way, and for addressing the points that we have rais...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c866-7 (Link to this contribution) I answered that question on Second Reading. The point is that 18 is the age of majority. People can ...; Brooks Newmark | 445 c868 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs. Villiers) was spot on in referring to the retros...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c868 (Link to this contribution) I will give way first to the hon. Member for Braintree (Mr. Newmark) and then to the hon. Member for...; Lord Redwood | 445 c867 (Link to this contribution) What does the Paymaster General think would be the revenue cost over a five-year period were the Com...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c868 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady does not know what she is talking about. Legally qualified Conservative Members pointe...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c867 (Link to this contribution) The point about retrospectivity is that many trusts cannot be varied. One would have to go to court ...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c868 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman is new to the House, but pretending that the world began only when he...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Lord—; Rob Marris | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, new clause 2 suggests that everything be put on hold for two years. We may all b...; Philip Dunne | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Sir Michael. Several people, including spouses who are elderly or incapacitated by m...; Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman should not pray in aid my indulgence. As has been said, he must address hi...; Philip Dunne | 445 c863 (Link to this contribution) I accept that this legislation includes a transitional period over the next two years, but I still a...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c863 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, we are not discussing the Bill and the clause—I only wish we ...; Philip Dunne | 445 c862 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, I cannot do so, because, as a result of data protection legislation, I do not have th...; Rob Marris | 445 c862-3 (Link to this contribution) The measure is not retrospective, although it may change people’s expectations. When people of our g...; Rob Marris | 445 c862 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might suggest to people that rather than going with the big four, they should joi...; Chris Bryant | 445 c849 (Link to this contribution) The trouble is that when inherited wealth is allowed to ride untrammelled across society, it is much...; Lord Redwood | 445 c848-9 (Link to this contribution) It was a long time ago, but if the Minister reads my resignation statement he will see that my resig...; Ivan Lewis | 445 c848 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman wanted to be leader.; Lord Redwood | 445 c849 (Link to this contribution) I am a great believer in equality of opportunity, and the way to have a much richer and more prosper...; Helen Goodman | 445 c849 (Link to this contribution) : If the right hon. Gentleman thinks that, can he also tell us whether agrees or disagrees with the ...; Lord Redwood | 445 c848 (Link to this contribution) I did not support it because I was not a Member of Parliament at the time. [Interruption.] I am tell...; Lord Redwood | 445 c848 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may recall that I resigned from the Cabinet over matters of principle because I had rea...; Ivan Lewis | 445 c848 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman was a member of the Cabinet.; Stewart Hosie | 445 c859-60 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman, and I am sure that the Committee Chairman will be delighted to hear that...; Lord Davies of Stamford | 445 c859 (Link to this contribution) I am particularly grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, as I am interrupting his speech to ...; Stewart Hosie | 445 c859 (Link to this contribution) I am not a tax accountant or a lawyer, and, given the nature of our debate, I am grateful that I am ...; Brooks Newmark | 445 c857-9 (Link to this contribution) I am getting the sense that I am in a minority in the Committee as I do not have a legal string to m...; Lord Davies of Stamford | 445 c854-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the hon. Lady was listening because I tried to explain how that would happen. Fi...; Helen Goodman | 445 c854 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman explain how the Laffer curve could possibly affect the revenue from inheritan...; Lord Davies of Stamford | 445 c853-4 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very interesting debate so far, and I want to make three points and to ask a questio...; David Gauke | 445 c852-3 (Link to this contribution) I am inclined to believe specialists who work extensively in the field—[Interruption.] If the civil ...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c852 (Link to this contribution) So the hon. Gentleman is saying that he does not believe me when I say that there is flexibility for...; David Gauke | 445 c852 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady should not take my word; the advice provided by professional after professional ...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c852 (Link to this contribution) If I were to tell the hon. Gentleman that the Government have made provision for precisely the situa...; Philip Dunne | 445 c861-2 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that trusts are used by the courts for the settlement of assets in every divorce...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c860 (Link to this contribution) Given that the hon. Gentleman does not have control, is the trust subject to inheritance tax?; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c860 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who makes my point that changes to trusts are covered either by...; Philip Dunne | 445 c860 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to say that my father survived more than seven years after the gift was made, so it ben...; Philip Dunne | 445 c860-1 (Link to this contribution) I should like now to deal with the deficiencies of the regime, which I am afraid that the Paymaster ...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c861 (Link to this contribution) I am advised that divorcing couples tend to make a clean break. Solicitors who are involved in divor...; Philip Dunne | 445 c861 (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to suggest that. I am trying to demonstrate that there is an enormous disparity bet...; Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 445 c836 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment (c) to the new clause, in line 1...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c839 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. The measure will impact with disproportionate harshness on wo...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c838-9 (Link to this contribution) We are not talking about the bands of inheritance tax—that is not the debate—but about new additiona...; Michael Fallon | 445 c839 (Link to this contribution) Given that we are dealing either with divorce or the death of one spouse, which is more likely to be...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c837-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point, which I have already taken on board. In my view, section...; Ann Coffey | 445 c838 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady tell me at what level she proposes to set inheritance tax?; Theresa Villiers | 445 c837 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. The aim of the new clause is to ensure that h...; Chris Bryant | 445 c837 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady said that her new clause applies to spouses. For the avoidance of doubt, will she acce...; Helen Goodman | 445 c839 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Lady explain what sort of family reasons those would be?; Theresa Villiers | 445 c839-40 (Link to this contribution) Certainly. I will come to that in a moment. Flexibility is built into modern trusts to help people ...; Helen Goodman | 445 c840 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Lady explain why a person would want to set up a trust, rather than changing their will...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c840-1 (Link to this contribution) The trust allows the testator to split the property between his second spouse and his children in a ...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c841-2 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady has acknowledged, there will be no change to the rules on the transfer to the spous...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c842 (Link to this contribution) The Paymaster General is right that there is no change to the rules on making outright transfers to ...; Sharon Hodgson | 445 c841 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that setting up trusts is just a way for a few wealthy individuals to avoid payin...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c841 (Link to this contribution) As I have said, setting up a trust does not provide inheritance tax advantages. People set up trusts...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c841 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has acknowledged that any transfer to a spouse is exempt. Will she explain why somebod...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c841 (Link to this contribution) The problem in relation to the creation of lifetime trusts is not nearly as serious as the problem i...; Ann Coffey | 445 c842 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady explain to the Committee why she feels comfortable in supporting trusts that prot...; Chris Bryant | 445 c843 (Link to this contribution) : I intend to speak briefly because I want to make only two points. First, although the hon. Member...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c842 (Link to this contribution) Trusts protect a wide range of some of the most vulnerable people in our community. If Members do no...; Philip Dunne | 445 c842 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that for the past six or seven years every solicitor practisi...; Viscount Thurso | 445 c844 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Chris Bryant | 445 c844 (Link to this contribution) Of course I give way to the hon. Gentleman, whose honour itself is inherited.; Philip Dunne | 445 c843-4 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, I am not familiar with property values in the Rhondda, but I know those in my constituency ...; Chris Bryant | 445 c844 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman can speak for his constituency, but I dare to suggest that if he considers the wh...; Viscount Thurso | 445 c844 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is too kind. I quite understand the logic of his argument, but will he tell me wh...; Chris Bryant | 445 c844-5 (Link to this contribution) No. This is another area in which the hon. Member for Chipping Barnet exaggerated earlier. She seeme...; Lord Redwood | 445 c845 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman saying that prospects under Labour are so poor in his part of the world that n...; Chris Bryant | 445 c845 (Link to this contribution) No, no—the right hon. Gentleman misunderstands the economy of south Wales, just as he did when he wa...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c845 (Link to this contribution) As we have heard, there is a divergence of opinion on what the Bill means. The Red Book suggests tha...; Ann Coffey | 445 c845 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Lady tell us at what level her party proposes to set inheritance tax?; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c845-6 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to tell the hon. Lady that we will shortly be announcing a fundamental review of t...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c846 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Lady announces the outcome of that review, will it contain the principle that the rule...; Julia Goldsworthy | 445 c846-7 (Link to this contribution) As I said, the system will be fairer and simpler. The hon. Members for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and fo...; Lord Redwood | 445 c847-8 (Link to this contribution) : My hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs. Villiers) has identified an extremely importan...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c867 (Link to this contribution) The Opposition new clauses would completely negate the Government’s legislation, so everything score...; Philip Dunne | 445 c864 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to that, too. Given that we are digressing for a moment or two, with your indulgence,...; Theresa Villiers | 445 c842-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. For many years, it has been a standard part of more or less every w...; Mark Hoban | 445 c936 (Link to this contribution) Does the Financial Secretary accept that the Red Book puts the cost of the measure, and therefore th...; Philip Dunne | 445 c915 (Link to this contribution) The relevance is that home working is put at risk by the Government’s proposal to scrap the home com...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c913 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Swedish scheme has been recommended for abolition, and for exac...; Stewart Hosie | 445 c887 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned flexibility and competitiveness. In the Budget, the Chancellor said tha...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c876-7 (Link to this contribution) Prior to 6 April 2006, employers who made computer equipment available for private use by their empl...; Baroness Primarolo | 445 c865-6 (Link to this contribution) Of course, I shall come to that. I took part in a debate with one of the hon. Lady’s colleagues earl...; David Gauke | 445 c850-2 (Link to this contribution) I had hoped that we might find a few areas of consensus on this issue. There is clearly a range of v...; Helen Goodman | 445 c861 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is surely not suggesting that half the people who make a will have assets that ar...; Rob Marris | 445 c848 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the right hon. Gentleman is saying. Did he support the Inheritance Tax Act 1984? A...; Mark Francois | 445 c915-6 (Link to this contribution) It falls to me sum up this interesting and sometimes vigorous debate on the future of the home compu...; Rob Marris | 445 c895-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) for his speech, a large part of which was though...; Lord Wills | 445 c893 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Lord Wills | 445 c892 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Mark Francois | 445 c889 (Link to this contribution) I promised to give way to the hon. Member for Wirral, West and I shall keep my word.; Lord Redwood | 445 c849-50 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that that is true; indeed, there are many examples to the contrary. I have not inheri...; Philip Dunne | 445 c860 (Link to this contribution) I remind the Committee of my entry in the Register of Members’ Interests. I am a settlor of a trust,...
Subjects: Clubs Companies Corporation tax Computers Civil partners Housing ICT Divorce Exemptions Inheritance tax Fringe benefits Equipment Remote working Low incomes Property Married people Small businesses Tax allowances Taxation Trusts Tax rates and bands Wills Home computing initiative Civil partnerships dissolution
Legislation: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2005-06
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Finance (No. 2) Bill 2005-06

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